The answer's on here somewhere

Seadee

Seadee

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The answer\'s on here somewhere

I want to fit a mid ships cleat. Only problemo is that I can't get to t'underneath to use a bolt and nut. So ... wnc ? I could use some chunky screws ? I could try some heavy duty rawlplug type fixings ? I can't cut an inspection hatch to gain access as the gunwhales at that point are only about 3" off the side walks (?). I can imagine that the deck at that point is quite thick (so lending the screw agrument some cred) but just plonking it on the side deck wil mean that I'll keep trippin' over it on the way to the bow ... and one day end up in the drink.

There's got to be a bright answer out there somewhere ?

CD
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

Rawl bolts sounds good. But can you find SS ones.??

Think screws would be ok for your boat, but screwing in big self tappers, could be a problem. Is there such a thing as a big self tapper with a hexigon head. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

AFAIK cleats should have pretty solid backing plates or you could pull the deck or screws out, so you really need to be looking at getting underneath somehow.

I may be wrong /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

It's not ideal, but it's only a smallish boat and a centre cleat does not often take much load. Even if it comes off, the boats not going to go anywhere, as it's moored now without them.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

Just thinking a bit differently, would it be feasible to install a 'U' or 'eye' bolt (or even a cleat...) in the cabin side, say a few inches above deck level?
Less likely to trip over / stub your toes on it, and I see no reason why it should not still do the job. One slight hassle would be that the spring line(s) themselves might be standing off the deck (hence likely to trip over?).
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

I also plan on adding centre cleats to my 805 and reckon that the starboard side of the deck/toe rail can (just) be accessed via the storage bin in the heads - it is only held in by four screws. this would allow you to fix a backing plate to the cleat. On the port side it is necessary to cut an access hatch below deck height in the cabin inner skin alongside the navigator seat. I intend to put a storage bin into this cut-out to retain access and make some use of the void behind the inner skin.

I discussed this with the local dealer and they fit the cleats in line with the vertical rail in the forward part of the saloon windows.

Sorry no photos at the moment to show the locations better.

AHoy2.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

[ QUOTE ]
Just thinking a bit differently, would it be feasible to install a 'U' or 'eye' bolt (or even a cleat...) in the cabin side, say a few inches above deck level?
Less likely to trip over / stub your toes on it, and I see no reason why it should not still do the job. One slight hassle would be that the spring line(s) themselves might be standing off the deck (hence likely to trip over?).

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking that thought one further; Wichard make a natty folding pad eye which is often used for attaching lifelines and jackstays. Clicky here to see.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

can you let a fairlead into the gunwhale, and then you avoid superficially fixing a cleat onto the deck - which is not a Good Idea.

A warp can then be lead through the fairlead and for'd or aft to a properly installed cleat.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

If you have a cleat on the deck, it will be used for something with a big load by someone. So you have to fix it properly.
Rawlplugs a no ono GRP - they apply outward force around the hole when tightened and will split it.
No matter how well you attach to the GRP you need to spread the load with a backing pad or again you will split the GRP.
There is no such thing as "can't". Get behind them, bond on a ply pad and bolt the cleats through the deck.
As for fairleads, if you are using one to change the angle of pull by 90deg or near to it, the force is actually greater than a straight pull on a cleat would be. So you shouldn't do a half job on that either. (the force on the fairlead would be root of the 2 times the square of the straight pull, assuming 90 deg and no friction)
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

I used stainless steel butterfly type fixings to secure davits when I couldn't get access to fit the nut.

They were easy to install, bit pricey see Here for more info
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

These look good. They spread the load (a bit). Certainly good for snap davits but not traditional davits with the leverage they have unless that bit of boat is already ply reinforced in that place.
If I was fitting a cleat with these I'd make it a small cleat. Good find though.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

I knew it - the answer's here somewhere. It never ceases to amaze me how much you guys know and how many novel ideas there are for problems. Well done all, there's a bit for me to think about.

Ta again

CD
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

Don't much like to the idea of rawlplugs surely they work on the principle of applying force on the hole outwards to tighten them rather than a compression force? The idea of the butterfly type fixing seems pretty good - the fixing would go right through into the void between the side decking and the hull side and the forces would be spread on the deck. Don;t know where you get SS or galvanised ones though.

And as regards stubbing your toe on the cleat or tripping over it why not fit a natty folding/telescopic cleat on the lines of this one?

http://www.marine-super-store.com/posit/shop/index.php?selectedpartno=0-334-4-SP

Course you'll still trip over it but at least it looks as if you've made an effort /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

A vote for sb99's stainless butterfly bolts. I've used standard ones for many applications over the years. If you buy good quality I'm sure they're more than up to the job.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

The deck may be thick, but I'll bet it's balsa cored, so nothing will hold in that. The answer is to bolt through and spread the load with a big ply pad. The butterfly fixings are better than nothing, but I wouldn't want to rely on them.

To give you an idea of the load that a proper cleat can stand, Mr Evans was rafted up alongside us when the weather turned a bit. The motion snapped a length of 16mm double braid warp with a bang loud enough to be heard 100m away on the beach but the cleats stayed put. Not sure I'd want to trust that load to some butterfly bolts.
 
Re: The answer\'s on here somewhere

Good point, like Elessar said, because the cleat is in the deck, at some stage someone is going to put a lot of pressure on it. You may not even be there when it happens.
Go the backing plate. Find a way.

Or just run full length spring lines. Those curious creatures in 'yots' do it all the time /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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