Terrible news from Clipper

Sailingsaves said:
To RESOLUTION:

Would you ask your friend if the lifejackets have a sprayhood, please?

I sailed on one of these boats for a few days and the level of fitness required is high.

Those sails are HEAVY.

In calm weather it took about seven of us to change a headsail.

After just a few days I was aching all over.

Maybe it should not be a race and allow easier sail handling mechanics to be employed; people would still have the adventure of a lifetime without needing such high levels of fitness (and possibly become exhausted). Even when off watch it can be difficult to sleep in the tiny bunks with cooking and other things going on around.

We had to use the life jackets provided. I never checked mine. It should (imo) have a very easy to deploy sprayhood.
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In a bizarre coincidence I have just had drinks with a group of people and one of them is flying out to join the Clipper Race in a few weeks time. He's a young man I've know for a few years and I had no idea he was about to be a 'Legger' in Clipper speak. He's flying out to Australia on New Years Eve and sailing the WhitSundays onwards leg.

I asked him about spray hoods and life jackets and the answer is yes, they have spray hoods.
 
john_morris_uk said:
Show me where I have defended Clipper. I think you will find that I have said I will be the first to criticise them if they are found wanting.

Its the unjustifiable guesses and assumptions about tragic incidents that I object to.

I also think that people's comments on sailing big boats need to be seen through the lens of whether they've actually sailed one or ever even been offshore on an ocean leg. Anyone is entitled to ask questions or comment as appropriate, but they need to be open and honest about what experience they are commenting from and be less willing to jump to conclusions based on limited experience.

I also think jumping to any conclusion is inappropriate in this tragic episode.
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Part of the reason I find the forum interesting. It is open to anyone. All opinions are equal.
Some members choose to provide name and experience some choose not to do so. I choose not to do so. For my own reasons.
I rather like the idea my opinion is no more or no less valid than any other old fart sitting on the couch with a computer. Yet I can see some forum members have some good points. Others maybe not. Of course those are just my irrelevant opinions.

This particular thread is about a tragic accident. So more contentious and more sensitivity required. Most of us do not know anyone involved. Even so it helps to talk about it. People do usually talk.

I agree jumping to a conclusion based on no information is not a valid conclusion. Yet most people will. Even if all they are really doing is expressing a feeling.
"It shouldn't have happened" "something ought to be done" "They knew the risk" "These Things happen" or many others.
 
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john_morris_uk said:
In a bizarre coincidence I have just had drinks with a group of people and one of them is flying out to join the Clipper Race in a few weeks time. He's a young man I've know for a few years and I had no idea he was about to be a 'Legger' in Clipper speak. He's flying out to Australia on New Years Eve and sailing the WhitSundays onwards leg.

I asked him about spray hoods and life jackets and the answer is yes, they have spray hoods.
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Suprised anyone has to ask.
 
westhinder said:
Which begs the question why they did not do this when it was suggested
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In Sail Training, the model where one professional on the boat, the skipper, with the first mate usually a qualified, experienced amateur that has been deemed competent, is not that unusual in the charity side. The likes of the OYT do not sail with full time Mates but with volunteer mates. They too have sailed on some big adventures. The Challenge business was structured the same.

I would imagine that Clipper would have been following what they considered to be accepted, proven practice, shown to work over decades of sail training in the size of vessels that they used. Based on what folks have said about Clipper's training schedule for the Cox's position, it is of a longer duration than what I know for some charities (who also use hank on headsails).

If the person went overboard properly attached, the real question is why did the tether fail? As a last line of defense it should have been up to the job, if it was being used correctly. To avoid ambiguity, I am not implying that the deceased used the tether incorrectly. A second professional is irrelevant if the tether fails in use.
 
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It is unfortunate that when something like this happen there seem to be individuals intent on finding fault or levelling criticism at the parties involved regardless of wether that is relevant to the circumstances of the incident. They will argue that because Clipper didn't follow the letter of the MAIB advice (a comment incidentally made by one of their inspectors, not one of the recommendations included in the report) that portrays them as a reckless organization more likely to fall victim to further incident, however they appear to conveniently forget about the literally thousands, if not millions, of miles they have safely sailed bringing life changing (no pun intended) experiences to hundreds of individuals who would otherwise have been unable to do so. I'm not suggesting there is some kind of noble cause that justifies risk taking, I'm saying these things need keeping in perspective and given the nature of what Clipper does and the level of experience amongst the majority of the crew in my humble opinion they actually have a pretty good track record.
 
My sincere condolences to family, friends and colleagues of Simon Speirs for their tragic loss.

I recent re-read this Daily Telegraph editorial from 1979, it seems appropriate.

“If we stil value the qualities of daring, comradeship and endurance in our national life we should cherish the sports which foster them with the risks they carry. The lessons of the Fastnet should be studied calmly and applied sensibly but in the knowledge that they can never expel danger from yachting and the conviction that it will be a sad and bad day when this seafaring people declines the challenge of the ocean”
 
davidjackson said:
My sincere condolences to family, friends and colleagues of Simon Speirs for their tragic loss.

I recent re-read this Daily Telegraph editorial from 1979, it seems appropriate.

“If we stil value the qualities of daring, comradeship and endurance in our national life we should cherish the sports which foster them with the risks they carry. The lessons of the Fastnet should be studied calmly and applied sensibly but in the knowledge that they can never expel danger from yachting and the conviction that it will be a sad and bad day when this seafaring people declines the challenge of the ocean”
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Humm yes well; might I ask, is the point of a Yacht Race to see whom gets back first or to see whom survive the race intact or alive ?

AS I understood that the Race is about Tactics, awareness of Wind and Weather, awareness of the sport, determination of the crew, ability of the crew, using the elements to ones advantage etc etc

Certainly not about testing the strength of any safety systems to the limit or beyond, whether the craft design and build rigging, sails or any other elements can make it home again, in one piece?

Yes note that the article is date 1979, well lots have moved on since then, not all for the better is appears, we now should have better understanding of safety and life, but in some quarters apparently NOT ?
 
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Capt Popeye said:
Humm yes well; might I ask, is the point of a Yacht Race to see whom gets back first or to see whom survive the race intact or alive ?
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Yacht racing is no different to pretty much any other competitive sport involving the use of machinery, it involves finding a fine balance between risk and objective. In order to finish first, first you have to finish so the point is always to make it to the end, however to do so to conservatively would defeat the very reason for your presence. The most successful ocean racers are not necessarily the fastest sailors, they are those that have the skills to find that balance consistently. Not everybody enjoys the challenges, or thrills, that racing produces, however I'm fairly confident there is no better way of learning about seamanship than to sail in a competitive environment.
 
Humm would still like to know why there does not appear to be netting spread along the guard rails to catch anyone who looses their footing, so preventing them getting swept overboard, surely that netting will not impede the craft ?

Or is it considered to be sissy ?
 
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