pvb
Well-Known Member
The exhaust on my 352 exited at the waterline in the cockpit locker area - you can just see the outlet immediately aft of the cradle leg in this pic.
Terminals on heavy battery /starter cable
- Thread starter contessaman
- Start date
The exhaust on my 352 exited at the waterline in the cockpit locker area - you can just see the outlet immediately aft of the cradle leg in this pic.
lw395
Well-Known Member
A long slow slope downhill to the transom may be an easy ramp for the incoming water from a following sea?
Also it will drain of water and not do any silencing?
I think there is something to be said for having as much as possible of the run of exhaust below the critical level of the engine.
Also it will drain of water and not do any silencing?
I think there is something to be said for having as much as possible of the run of exhaust below the critical level of the engine.
JohnGC
Well-Known Member
That's interesting and a surprise. Thanks for the link.
They don't specify what the high discharge rate was and I doubt my T105s will ever get anywhere near such a rate. Food for thought never the less.
prv
Well-Known Member
If the picture shows what they claim then I would also have doubts about the quality of the crimp. It's a fair point that soldering will be an improvement on the bodgers' favoured techniques involving a hammer or a vise.
As Dougal says, though, it's very odd that the lug itself, between the battery terminal and the cable, is apparently stone cold if the joint is so hot.
Pete
lw395
Well-Known Member
I imagine the picture is chosen to make their point.
It's common to use such imaging techniques in electronics.
Quite often you'd use a short, high current pulse to localise the problems.
The flow of heat takes time, even in copper, anyone who's done a spot of plumbing ought to realise this.
Trojan aren't trying to sell us solder AFAIK, they're trying to help us get the best out of their batteries.
Of course you should have doubts about the quality of the crimp.
A perfect crimp will not need soldering.
In fact, it would be impossible to solder a perfect crimp as there are no gaps for the solder to penetrate.
But we are tending to put such big wire into boats these days that it's very hard to make a perfect crimp joint except in a nice factory situation.
If you can take the work to a nice factory, that is best. They will have proper tools which put several tons exactly where it's wanted.
It's not always possible though.
e.g. when the other end of the wire is buried in the loom of your mate's motorbike and he needs to ride it to work tomorrow....
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
They also claim "If allowed to continue the high temperature will be transferred to the terminal post through the connector and eventually a melting down of the terminal will occur."
I'm finding it hard to believe that the joint will get hot enough to melt a lead terminal without the wiring catching fire.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I suspect it's possible, as opposed to likely.
Once the joint goes bad, it will quickly get worse.
Resistance of metal rises with temperature, so the dissipation runs away.
Melting point of lead is not very high. 600k?
Good insulation takes a lot of setting fire to...
Modern yachts are often quite demanding of their electrics, with high power inverters, bow thrusters and so forth which are much longer duration loads than starter motors should be.
prv
Well-Known Member
A £25 hydraulic crimper will also put several tons where it's wanted. At that price, dicking about with a hammer or a vise for anything other than a get-you-home fix is nonsense.
I prefer to do it in situ with such a tool rather than take it anywhere, as it makes it much easier and quicker to get the lengths right for a neat job. I've done two boats that way.
Pete
lw395
Well-Known Member
Yes it's going to be much better, easier and neater than hammers and vices etc.
But for big cables, the pro's might be having a bigger 'several' of tons.
I will buy one of those hydraulic crimpers as soon as I have the excuse, and section a test piece or two.
See how it compares.
contessaman
Well-Known Member
Did you see the second link I've put? For a few quid more I've gone for the 16T one.
As for a friendly factory I wish I knew one. I don't know of any places who will charge less than that crimper cost as soon as I've even walked through the door. And since the exact routing of the wires will evolve in real time as I'm doing it on the boat i much prefer the idea of doing it myself..
contessaman
Well-Known Member
Oh I see! It comes out the side!... My original exhaust fitting is in my transom so it must have been different from the outset. Your 352 looked very nice. Hope I can get my 38 back to her former glory once I've finished the engine. Its only really the faded blue stripe letting her down. Do you miss the 352? How come you sold her and what do you sail now?
pvb
Well-Known Member
Gosh, this is real thread drift! Thanks for your kind words about my old 352; the pic was taken in 2014 just before I handed her over to the new owner. She was built in 1990, and I'd owned her since 1996, so it was a bit of a wrench to say goodbye. I had the blue stripes resprayed with Awlgrip in 2010, in anticipation of selling sometime in the next few years. I spent a lot of time renovating the teak deck with great care, and it looked pretty good, but I knew that it would need replacing sooner rather than later. I was getting quotes of £25-35K for a new deck, and decided I couldn't rationalise spending that amount when it would add very little to the boat's value. Then there was the original 24 year old engine, which was still running perfectly, but for how long? And I suppose the clincher was that there always seemed to be something needing repair or replacement - calorifier, toilet, windlass, etc. So my cunning plan was to sell the HR and buy a brand-new boat which wouldn't need anything much doing to it for a few years. I'd have loved a new HR372, but they really are silly money, so for a third of the HR price I got a new Bavaria Cruiser 37, built to a high spec with lots of goodies. Yes, I miss the 352, but I love the Bavaria, which is just so easy to handle and is very nice to spend time on.
ffiill
Well-Known Member
I make my own.
Take some 10 mm microbore tube; flatten the end in a vice or hammer; drill it to size needed;tin cable and solder in
For this I use my granddads tinsmiths soldering iron with its big copper bit which you heat up with a blowtorch.
For cable I use welding cable.
Take some 10 mm microbore tube; flatten the end in a vice or hammer; drill it to size needed;tin cable and solder in
For this I use my granddads tinsmiths soldering iron with its big copper bit which you heat up with a blowtorch.
For cable I use welding cable.
Lon nan Gruagach
Well-Known Member
Couple of problems here:
10mm microbore (from Wickes) has wall thickness of 0.7mm, giving cross sectional area of 22mm2, this is equivalent to 2.5mm dia cable.You have a serious bottleneck at the crimp.
Also, compared to copper, solder is a pathetic conductor, you should focus more on physical connection with solder there to hold things in place.
Daverw
Well-Known Member
I find it really strange the lengths people goto when trying to find alternates to long standing industry standards, crimp fittings cost very little, all correctly sized. Can understand for an emergency field repair to make something as you suggest but are you seriously recommending this as an alternate option?
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I youtubed "DIY copper lugs" and found a lot of good and some bad fillums of people using copper pipe.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=DIY+copper+lugs
Now, discounting the red-neck nature of some of the videos, what is wrong with using good quality, thick-walled copper pipe, sized to fit the battery cable properly, and making a good tight cable termination ?
At £8.87 (not including P&P, and VAT) for 10 Klauke 35mm2 cable ends,
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/b/klauke/connectors/terminals-splices/ ..... I can buy lots and lots of copper pipe of varying diameters.
Done properly with the right crimping tool/method, what can go wrong ?
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=DIY+copper+lugs
Now, discounting the red-neck nature of some of the videos, what is wrong with using good quality, thick-walled copper pipe, sized to fit the battery cable properly, and making a good tight cable termination ?
At £8.87 (not including P&P, and VAT) for 10 Klauke 35mm2 cable ends,
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/b/klauke/connectors/terminals-splices/ ..... I can buy lots and lots of copper pipe of varying diameters.
Done properly with the right crimping tool/method, what can go wrong ?
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contessaman
Well-Known Member
Yes... my bad! I know what you mean though mine is certainly getting to that stage and at 1982 vintage and with a handful of Atlantic circuits under her keel she's showing her age a bit. Its the deck for me that's the killer. There's still about half an inch of teak thickness left but it needs continuous work and ideally I need to re-seat a few planks. I'm pretty much decided now on replacing it with a 'flexiteek' one in a year or two. They do a weathered teak thats a much nicer silvery colour (than some of these hideous orange ones) and they've done my class of boat before so the price if I do the donkey work is only about 4k plus vat. I'm sure it will de-value the boat a little but I've got no plans to move on and I figure even if I changed my mind a smart new replica teak deck got to be worth more than a green leaky real teak one!
contessaman
Well-Known Member
I agree. For about 150 quid it looks like I can renew all the cable from my starter battery to engine in 70mm squared tinned with decent quality fittings. Anchor dragging in a squall is not the time for me to wish I'd spent a little more..
prv
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
(As it happens, I do now (as in post #20) work somewhere that I could probably bring in a load of my own cables and do them in the wiremen's lunchbreak. But a year ago I'd have had no clue where to go, and even now I would much prefer to do it in situ rather than have to work out precise lengths in advance.)
Pete
