Telltales on Gennys

[Chiara’s slave]

Is it that hard to replace them after every 150 days of sailing?

Quite. Theres a few spare sets on board with us. If we lose one, or it gets too tatty, the next hoist, we stick another one on. It adds 15 seconds to the hoist time.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

This is all very good stuff but although I pay attention to the leach telltales I can't usually be bothered with the jib ones. I can't see them from the helm unless I sit downwind and peer up at the sail, which is not the most comfortable position to be in with a tiller. My boat, an HR 34, is not as sensitive to jib adjustment as its 340 successor, and I have learn how to set it in most winds well enough that I can judge the sheeting from the helm with only the occasional visit down to look at it.

Sounds like you are saying that you don't have a tiller extension, which I think is essential for helming comfortably while sitting out on the coaming to observe the telltales and keep a lookout ahead for pot buoys etc., which are difficult to spot from a lower viewpoint, seated in the cockpit.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I’d barely get to windward at all without constant close attention to the jib tell tales. Plus an occasional glance at the wind instruments and speed, to check I haven’t gone off on one.

 

[Draystone]

I started sailing relatively late life and haven't enjoyed my occasional foray into racing. My interest is in cruising.

The skills I think I am most deficient in are sail and boat trim. IE the skills people often say are best acquired from a young age or racing.

Most texts I read don't seem to suit my learning method.

However, Flaming's insights always seems to be pitched just right and expressed in a style which does suit me.

So thanks for taking the time to post Flaming.

Oh, and if you publish a book or article on the subject, I'd be very interested.

Have a good weekend.

 

[johnalison]

Sounds like you are saying that you don't have a tiller extension, which I think is essential for helming comfortably while sitting out on the coaming to observe the telltales and keep a lookout ahead for pot buoys etc., which are difficult to spot from a lower viewpoint, seated in the cockpit.

You are right in that I don’t have a tiller extension. Most of our trips were far too long for me to want to spend the time sitting on the coaming for hours at a time. Boats may differ, but I have no difficulty looking around from the cockpit, other than obvious blind spots from the jib and mast, which sitting out would not solve, and nor do I think that a helmsman at a wheel should have trouble keeping watch in a properly designed boat.

 

[thinwater]

Yes, they are common in some classes. Handy for over-trim awareness. I use them on my F-24. But they have a rough life on a furler, since they are always exposed. Also difficult to watch (the helmsman can't see them from the windward side).

A maintenance problem for most cruisers.

Practical Sailor, Jib Telltales

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You are right in that I don’t have a tiller extension. Most of our trips were far too long for me to want to spend the time sitting on the coaming for hours at a time. Boats may differ, but I have no difficulty looking around from the cockpit, other than obvious blind spots from the jib and mast, which sitting out would not solve, and nor do I think that a helmsman at a wheel should have trouble keeping watch in a properly designed boat.

Our boat has a kind of helmsmans perch, a hinge down seat attached to the pushpit either side. As we don’t heel much, itks secure and comfortable, and with a tiller extrension, gives the view required to sail by the telltales, and keep watch, apart from the same obvious blind spots, the crew on the lee side can see those. It has to be said, even though the seat is fine, staring at the telltales for 12 hours has your eyes on stalks. Moral, don’t spend all day beating!

 

[Daydream believer]

A decent adjustable tiller extension alows one to change sitting angle & grip of the tillet on a longer trip. It also helps ( for me anyway) coming in and out of marinas where I can get outboard a bit to get a good view. That is apart from ordinary upwind sailing, where I have the choice of sitting on the shaped coming or the cockpit seat.
When motoring ,if I am steering, I can put the end of the extension against the side of the cockpit to take the load of the propwash ( I have a Brunton autoprop, so get a lot of propwash) & just by moving the end back & forth I can make small adjustments

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We have used Spinlock spade grip extensions for the last 25 years, cruisers and our XOD. Getting your fist properly wrapped around your extension is massively less tiring, and still works fine for Daydream believers uses above.

 

[Daydream believer]

I use a Spinlock

 

[thinwater]

The thread was about leach tell tales on a genoa. Since the sail overlaps the mast, you will not be able to see ant of them when helming from the windward side. You will only be able to see the upper leach tell tales from the forward leeward corner of the cockpit, which are the ones that you need to watch most closely, and only when there is not too much twist in the main.

But you don't have to watch them constantly to get value from them. Get a look at them when adjusting the sails, and then keep the AW angle like that, based on other wind indicators, tell tales, and the sails themselves.

And leach telltales are not just for overlapping headsails.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

The thread was about leach tell tales on a genoa. Since the sail overlaps the mast, you will not be able to see ant of them when helming from the windward side. You will only be able to see the upper leach tell tales from the forward leeward corner of the cockpit, which are the ones that you need to watch most closely, and only when there is not too much twist in the main.

But you don't have to watch them constantly to get value from them. Get a look at them when adjusting the sails, and then keep the AW angle like that, based on other wind indicators, tell tales, and the sails themselves.

And leach telltales are not just for overlapping headsails.

I am a little puzzled by your statements that the leeward telltales cannot be seen from the windward side of the cockpit. On any boat I have sailed on, they can be seen through the sail. No need to go to the leeward side.
Not all genoas overlap the mast, particularly when reefed, when the inner set of telltales comes into play.
Where I learned to sail it was taught that the helmsman should always steer from the windward side, changing sides when tacking or gybeing.
It is considered customary to sit out and use the tiller extension while sailing upwind so as to be able to see the telltales.
True, there is no need to watch them constantly, but it is essential to watch them while trimming the sail.

 

[Daydream believer]

The thread was about leach tell tales on a genoa.

Actually I thought it was a leech
When I had my Stella I often helmed from the same side as the genny, in light airs, so I could get a good view of it, Plus a view of boats that side. Important when racing. It was also comfortable as I could lay against the side of the cockpit & that gave me considerable support when helming.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Actually I thought it was a leech
When I had my Stella I often helmed from the same side as the genny, in light airs, so I could get a good view of it, Plus a view of boats that side. Important when racing. It was also comfortable as I could lay against the side of the cockpit & that gave me considerable support when helming.

That’s all pretty normal on small keelboats. You’ll see half the XOD fleet doing that in light airs.

 

[thinwater]

I am a little puzzled by your statements that the leeward telltales cannot be seen from the windward side of the cockpit. On any boat I have sailed on, they can be seen through the sail. No need to go to the leeward side.
Not all genoas overlap the mast, particularly when reefed, when the inner set of telltales comes into play.
Where I learned to sail it was taught that the helmsman should always steer from the windward side, changing sides when tacking or gybeing.
It is considered customary to sit out and use the tiller extension while sailing upwind so as to be able to see the telltales.
True, there is no need to watch them constantly, but it is essential to watch them while trimming the sail.

You cannot see the LEACH telltales, because they are behind the mainsail. Remember, this thread is about genoas, which overlap the mast.

A genoa by definition overlaps the mast. If it does not overlap, it is not a genoa.

(Precision sails)
"Technically a foresail that does not overlap the mast is considered a jib, but an overlapping sail is a Genoa. Very likely you will hear the terms [incorrectly] used interchangeably. "

(Wiki)
"A genoa sail is a type of large jib or staysail that extends past the mast and so overlaps the main sail when viewed from the side,[1] sometimes eliminating it. It was originally called an "overlapping jib" and later a genoa jib. "

Yes, you can see them if you roll up a lot of sail. Slightly off the point, since most genoas are not, strictly speaking, roller reefing sails.

No, you cannot see the leach of an overlapping sail from the windward side of the cockpit. This is geometrically impossible. I have them, I'm sure.

In fact, there are occationally good reasons to helm from the lee side (visibility, light winds, mark roundings), so you should practice it.