Teak Sealer That Leaves The 'Grey' Look?

[The Real Flipper]

As you go along you will find the number of jobs joining the list exceeds the number falling off as you complete them

Yes. And single jobs turning out to be a list of jobs once you've correctly surveyed the project and realized, it's three!

but then one day you will find that the list contains mostly "nice to haves" jobs. That's when you opt to go and buy another boat and start all over again!

Haha- after all this is done, I might just keep the boat forever. Met a couple in my marina who renovated a Sadler 32, and still have her 30 years later. They say there is value in sailing a boat that you know inside out.
I did hope to upgrade to a Typhoon 37 one day, but now... I might just call it good with the boat I know.

That is a distant dream. Boat with no stern gear or engine, Bow thruster tube installed but motor and controls in a box in the saloon, mast on trestles sans rigging and just about to buy the third new tin of varnish!

And to think I sold a boat that did not even have a list other than couple of cans of fuel and a new bottle of single malt for the booze locker.

LOL. And here I thought I had a big project!
I do have to admit that some of the work itself has been pretty gratifying. The main stress is learning, solving the problems, planning, purchasing, and worrying about making it worse, which in my case is a very real possibility!
Once I get her into basically functioning condition I imagine maintenance and upgrades will be a lot more fun.
Because at least I'll also be enjoying sailing her

 

[Rappey]

If you don't know how to go about doing the job then asking on here will give you many ways to do things.
I came across an online suggestion of winding a self tapping screw into the centre of the plug which pops it out ? I will have to give that one a go.

there is value in sailing a boat that you know inside out.

An article asked sailors who have sailed hundreds of thousands of miles what they saw as the most important thing to know . It was to know every inch of your boat, how its put together and be a plumber,electrician,mechanic,carpenter etc

 

[The Real Flipper]

...It was to know every inch of your boat, how its put together and be a plumber,electrician,mechanic,carpenter etc

Well my skill set is definitely broadening in each of those directions. More by necessity than choice! But I am learning my boat every day and see the wisdom in that quote...

And I'd rather ask a thousand stupid questions and learn the skills to fix it, than pay somebody to do a job that I could have done myself. All this knowledge that I've gleaned from these forums will pay off in spades over time. Because I'm not planning to have a short sailing career ;-)

 

[The Real Flipper]

So I spent the weekend cleaning the boat, and it's been a bit of a bear. I'm in pretty bad shape so I can only work an hour or so at a time, but still I spent all day Saturday and Sunday- well I was just broken, anyway I got some progress on the decks with 1. Manual wash with dish soap, then 2. Another wash with the oxalic acid. The acid seems to work well to brighten the steel bits and the deck and the wood. And some of the wood stains have come off. But there are still some dark stains on the wood, especially around about a handful of teak bolt caps where it's really stubborn and dark. There is also a black stain or two on spots with no visible bolt.
Should I up the oxalic concentration, the sitting time, or result to sanding? I hate to seal in something so ugly. And I know if I don't do the work now I'll wish I had later...

Anyway, the top grab rails really came out pretty nice with almost no effort compared to everything else.
I think all they'll need will be the woodskin, which is great news.
At the rate I'm moving (after a few days rest) it will probably be 2-3 more days of just cleaning as there's the stains and black hard tarry bits here and there that are basically just baked on and don't even want to come off with a paint scraper. I figure I could have washed a half a dozen cars with the effort I've put in. And I'm not even close to done! Wow. Boats eh?!

Other workers in the area keep telling me how nice and relaxing it is when she's finally in the water.
One guy came in to do electrical work. He normally does houses. Says he'll never work on a boat again LOL. I just say yeah I hear ya!
Trying to keep spirits up. The decks definitely look nicer and that helps

 

[Hacker]

The dark stains around areas where bolts have gone in may be “iron sickness”. If you remove the wood bung you will see if the bolt is corroded. If it is the only way you will get clean wood is to cut it out and fit a graving piece.

 

[Tranona]

The bolts are stainless and encapsulated so unlikely to be rust. More likely to be glue.

 

[Arcady]

. By the way have you tried Le Tonkinois Vernis Marine No.1 (what a name eh? Really rolls of the tongue LOL) The only thing bad I've heard is that it doesn't shine as much as some like. But seems like most everyone says it protects exceptionally well. Some ancient orient formula, well vendors say anyway.

Although Le Tonkinois is lovely stuff to use, I have found does not stand up to UV well, particularly on horizontal surfaces exposed to full sunlight.

 

[Hacker]

The bolts are stainless and encapsulated so unlikely to be rust. More likely to be glue.

Very probably true but I’ve seen A2 stainless rust and cause iron sickness. I only mentioned it as part of the overall diagnosis of the problem.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Right as I was leaving I found that I had used the wrong mix of Oxalic Acid. I was using 100g per bucket not 100g per liter. Another dumb mistake cost me a ton of unnecessary labor. At least I am getting slowly better at prioritizing. Now I'm only focused on cleaning to prep for teak work, the rudder, a little clean up around the thru hulls, and sorting out the mast spreader. Anything that can be done in the water will wait. Prioritizing is aparently a big part of boat work! As there is always plenty to do

Once the proper mix is used I'm guessing some of those stains may come out with washing after all ;-)

 

[The Real Flipper]

Well I spent the weekend again, working on the teak, that makes four whole days so far for what is basically a couple strips of wood. I really do want to do my best with this teak as I've seen Storms with good teak rails and it really makes a difference in how she looks overall. Plus the wood is just at the point that I feel like if I really put in an investment now, they can be preserved for many more years to come. If not, they'll likely be beyond repairing by next year. So it's now or never.

Anyway, I'm happy to report that the oxalic acid really did brighten up the wood nicely once the correct mix and sometimes a little extra strong mix was used on tough spots. I let it dry overnight. I then went around with a screwdriver handle and gently pushed down the high spots around the teak caps, and gently pushed in the teak caps to try to smooth it as much as possible, without harming the glue bond of the teak caps. So that the first thing the sanding would come in contact with would not be the teak caps. I then came around with a gentle sanding with a small handheld triangle shaped sander, being extra conscious of the caps. And finished some areas where deck hardware was close by hand sanding.

Sounds easy enough but in my less than decent physical condition it proved rather brutal work. I napped once or twice
I am however quite happy with the outcome all things considered its better than I expected it would be. And although not perfect, most of the hole stains came right out. And I am reasonably confident that the few small stains that remain can be worked out with a little care.

1. Whatever this crap was that was on the rails seemed some kind of mixture of algae, some kind of chalk like minerals, and a gluey tar like substance. You can see that the rails were quite dark, and when wet were almost black in areas. A bit of oxalic acid and a ton of elbow grease later and it was brightening nicely.




2. Once dried from the first round of oxalic the grey was lighter and vastly improved. Before and after with a green scrubby pad (the second round of oxalic) removed most of the grey without having to sand:




3. Before and after a light sanding:




4: The decks also brightened up quite a bit! Although you can now see my lovely splotchy two-tone paint job of cream and white




5: I'm super happy with the starboard grab rail. Although I'll never admit publicly how much time this took LOL!




6. Not all is perfect. There are still some small dark circles around a handful of holes that I will try to gently 'detail':




7. And there are a couple of cracks in the teak that I need to figure out how to deal with before they grow larger:

 

[The Real Flipper]

8. But overall from a few paces back I'd have to say I'm quite happy with the results so far, if not actually surprised! Sure I could have done all this in literally 1/4 the time (probably one day) if I'd just skipped straight to medium grit sandpaper and powered through it. But the whole idea was to preserve as much material as possible. So in that respect it's been a success, because very little has been sanded off:
(BTW I do plan to de-badge and later change the name, but that's another story...)

 

[The Real Flipper]

Still have to green scrubby pad, and light sand the port side teak. And I have new teak caps on the way. Thankfully I won't have to replace as many as originally estimated. Most cleaned up quite nicely! Just the loose/missing ones then. Now I need to pick a glue (normal epoxy?) to put in the caps and a small fine saw with no edge that will cut the caps flush without digging into the rails.

Also I'm totally abandoning the idea of sailing any time soon. I'm finally accepting suggestions to just focus on doing the best job that I can. Now that I can actually see some results spirits are rising

Thanks again for all the tips and advice!

 

[Rappey]

small fine saw with no edge that will cut the caps flush without digging into the rails.

Use a sharp chisel. Don't knock them off in one go but take thin slices as you get close to deck level. It will give a flush finish of the plug and epoxy

 

[The Real Flipper]

Use a sharp chisel. Don't knock them off in one go but take thin slices as you get close to deck level. It will give a flush finish of the plug and epoxy

BTW, is 'marine epoxy' for real, or is normal epoxy just as water resistant?
Thinking I might just use the same stuff for repairing my rudder as for the teak caps...

 

[Tranona]

For plugs any epoxy will do, but be aware that it can be hard work removing any excess from the surface. I did some plugs on Sunday and as I had left my CT1 on the boat used PVA. Plugs stuck in OK and the surplus glue was difficult, but it was being painted with Danbolin so not critical. On balance I preferred using brown CT1. Used a new blade on my pull saw which only left a mm or so to shave off with a chisel.

Your photos look great and the outcome is a reward for your efforts.. You have good timber to work with and once you get Woodskin on it ill look good for years to come.

Wise move to forget about sailing this year. Get the rest of the boat up to that standard and it will pay off in the long run.

 

[The Real Flipper]

For plugs any epoxy will do, but be aware that it can be hard work removing any excess from the surface. I did some plugs on Sunday and as I had left my CT1 on the boat used PVA. Plugs stuck in OK and the surplus glue was difficult, but it was being painted with Danbolin so not critical. On balance I preferred using brown CT1. Used a new blade on my pull saw which only left a mm or so to shave off with a chisel.

Your photos look great and the outcome is a reward for your efforts.. You have good timber to work with and once you get Woodskin on it ill look good for years to come.

Wise move to forget about sailing this year. Get the rest of the boat up to that standard and it will pay off in the long run.

Awesome, thanks. BTW is CT1 the preferred repair stuff for the rudder as well? I noticed their site says it works underwater and in salt water environments. That sounds pretty great, esp. since even epoxy will only state 'water resistant' making it seem a bit dubious for the rudder. BTW, the other Storm owner used carbon tape and epoxy and seems happy with his repair which makes me wonder why epoxy only advertises 'water resistant'. Maybe it's the kind of thing where it will slowly degrade, but then if its thick enough it really doesn't matter.

Also I have some chips in the back of the boat at the bottom of the transom. I was thinking of filling in with epoxy, then covering in clear coat. I wanted to get some clear coat for misc scratches like one ugly one on the bow, anyway. I wonder if clear coat sticks to epoxy, then I could just cover the rudder repair with clear coat and call it good. But then can it be anti fouled. Oh geez. I'm like a top 40 station of questions! LOL

 

[Tranona]

Epoxy and glass tape or cloth for repairing cracks in the rudder. Epoxy filler for your drain holes. Epoxy is much better for adhesion to existing GRP than polyester. Prime with Primocon and antifoul. Repairs to GRP hulls is a whole new subject and there are many ways of doing it depending on the extent and type of damage an the level of finish required. Biggest challenge is usually getting the final gel coat to blend in with the existing.

Polyurethane adhesive sealants like CT1 are useful for bedding down fitting that do not need to be removed - for example I used it as an adhesive for attaching the new engine beds to the old in addition to the mechanical fastenings. The set of steps I made was also screwed and glued with CT1 as an experiment and pleased with the result.

 

[Hacker]

If those cracks in the rails are just cracks (as opposed to loose wood) then filling them with thickened epoxy is fine (and then varnish with a UV resistant varnish). If you have any of the sanding left then use that to thicken the epoxy and it will blend very well.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Epoxy and glass tape or cloth for repairing cracks in the rudder. Epoxy filler for your drain holes. Epoxy is much better for adhesion to existing GRP than polyester. Prime with Primocon and antifoul. Repairs to GRP hulls is a whole new subject and there are many ways of doing it depending on the extent and type of damage an the level of finish required. Biggest challenge is usually getting the final gel coat to blend in with the existing.

Polyurethane adhesive sealants like CT1 are useful for bedding down fitting that do not need to be removed - for example I used it as an adhesive for attaching the new engine beds to the old in addition to the mechanical fastenings. The set of steps I made was also screwed and glued with CT1 as an experiment and pleased with the result.

Primocon and antifoul are on deck. Just ordered a roll of premium strength fiberglass. It's a little thicker, and the edges are clean, like quilted back inward or something, but not all frazzled. I hate frazzled edges in fiberglass such as when you cut it, because when you're smearing the epoxy on, it all seems to come apart and leave a messy edge. Anyway, I'm hoping I can pull off a real quality repair. Need to find epoxy filler. I assume you mean the expanding type epoxy? I used to use Gorialla Glue, and loved it. But they seem to be having shortages. Anyway I'll find something local.

So for now 'just' the port side to do a light sanding. Teak caps are in the mail. Surprisingly they were cheaper (and faster!) to order direct from USA than to buy locally from same company. Anyways, it feels like things are finally moving forward which is encouraging. It's nice when you finally have some results that you can see

If those cracks in the rails are just cracks (as opposed to loose wood) then filling them with thickened epoxy is fine (and then varnish with a UV resistant varnish). If you have any of the sanding left then use that to thicken the epoxy and it will blend very well.

That sounds like a neat trick. I'll save some of the sanding when I do the port side. Might even mix a little in, in spaces around caps where the gaps are a little large, if that makes sense, to help blend it in, instead of a clear gap. I've put this much time into it, I might as well do a few small extras, if it ties it out nicely.

Think you will find most of that staining will come out with scraping , sanding and local oxalid acid treatment. I am just redoing all the teak (and there is lots!) on my boat and would not dream of leaving it bare as it goes horrible just like yours. This is what the better side looks like now with varnish, but I am stripping it all off - other side and cockpit already done - and then 4 coats of International Woodskin which is a porous woodstain specifically formulated for long term protection of exterior wood on boats. Not super shiny, but very durable, you can expect 4-5 years before a refresher coat is needed. Will post some after pictures of the other side tomorrow. On my previous boat with even more wood trim, some of it was more than 10 years old when I sold it.

Yeah, my caps are pretty darn thin is why I've been so careful with the sanding, and done so much more manual cleaning. And that oxalic acid is great stuff. Really brightens and cleans up both the teak and the decks. I went in for the 5kg bucket and glad I did. I expect to use this on every boat from here to eternity. Sort of in the category of a 'tool' investment.

BTW, I don't see your photo. You have to select either 'thumbnail or full image' after you've uploaded it ;-)
Good luck with your project. Look forward to seeing how it comes along ?

 

[Rappey]

Might even mix a little in, in spaces around caps where the gaps are a little large

Caps sit on something. Plugs go in screw holes . Add something to the epoxy to thicken it a little then you can glue and fill at the same time.
You can get fibreglass filler that has strands of grp for filling your transom chips. Sets quick and most things will adhere to it.
For your splits in the rubbing strake I would pour epoxy into them and clamp them up.
Superglue is also very good at bonding wood for minor rapid repairs.