Tayana, moody, HR, Oyster, Northwind for next boat?

geem said:
I have no experience of sailing an Oyster but I would have thought it would depends on the point of sail in 10kts. Down wind you are in Spinnaker territory. Upwind you should have good boat speed with a decent apparent.
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i was referring to acceleration - not speed; on sheeting in, it takes a surprising amount of time to get going.

this is because of their relatively high displacement, and their small inefficient mainsails.

as i noted, in the steady state.., i.e. at hull speed.., they are okay.

one can argue that for a blue water cruising boat, it's really the speed they eventually get up to that counts.

I was just making the point that they are not necessarily much fun to sail, compared with more responsive boats.., and i don't mean race boats. The performance difference between an Oyster 485 and say a decent cruiser racer is pretty substantial.

I have no problem with someone saying that for them the balance comes down in favour of the oyster, or a similar boat. My main reason for commenting was if the OP might have been coming from a boat with substantially better performance.., he should make sure he will be happy with this sort of boat.

It sounds like he will be happy with an Oyster, or similar boat.
 
Laser_310 said:
i was referring to acceleration - not speed; on sheeting in, it takes a surprising amount of time to get going.

this is because of their relatively high displacement, and their small inefficient mainsails.

as i noted, in the steady state.., i.e. at hull speed.., they are okay.

one can argue that for a blue water cruising boat, it's really the speed they eventually get up to that counts.

I was just making the point that they are not necessarily much fun to sail, compared with more responsive boats.., and i don't mean race boats. The performance difference between an Oyster 485 and say a decent cruiser racer is pretty substantial.

I have no problem with someone saying that for them the balance comes down in favour of the oyster, or a similar boat. My main reason for commenting was if the OP might have been coming from a boat with substantially better performance.., he should make sure he will be happy with this sort of boat.

It sounds like he will be happy with an Oyster, or similar boat.
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But if you take a cruiser racer Bluewater, you have to choose to keep it light so it still performs well or load it up like a Bluewater boat and it won't perform. For us the load lugging ability and being able to maintain good average daily runs is far more important than theoretical performance. The OP is going Bluewater not racing around the cans
 
Here's tip for getting a good deal on the age of blue water boat you're looking at. Get one with the teak deck at the end of it's life. As long as there's about 1mm of groove left you can regoove and sand the deck and get another 10 years out of it. The cost, if you put the time in yourself, is about £1200 in TDS 400.
 
goeasy123 said:
Here's tip for getting a good deal on the age of blue water boat you're looking at. Get one with the teak deck at the end of it's life. As long as there's about 1mm of groove left you can regoove and sand the deck and get another 10 years out of it. The cost, if you put the time in yourself, is about £1200 in TDS 400.
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That may work if it is a glued on deck, but many of these older boats are screwed on and if it is that worn then the screws will be exposed and almost certainly there will be leaks. The only sensible thing to do with teak decks that are at the end of their life is to remove them and either bite the bullet and replace with either fake or glued teak, or make good the subdeck and apply a non slip coating.

If regrooving and caulking would indeed get an extra 10 years then it is not at the end of its life and any price reduction would reflect that. In reality you have to treat each boat on its merits against the price asked.
 
Thanks all and we now need to actually go and see some possible options in the flesh so to speak.

As said no rush and just thinking ahead.
 
I don't know what Covid has done, but the Windies used to be a good place to buy boats from folk who'd set off round the world and decided that the cruising life wasn't for them on their way across the Atlantic. An Eu registered boat could probably stay Eu if the sale happens in the EU, regardless of the physical location of the boat.
 
I have a Moody 44 with teak decks and in mast furling. My mainsail, made by Sanders, is fully battened with vertical battens so carries more area and sets much better than non battened versions. It sets well and is holding its shape. Maybe not quite as good as slab reefing but not far off in my opinion.
Teak decks on Moodys up to the 44 were glued while bigger boats were screwed and glued. It's well past its best as the previous owner had it sanded each year but probably best part of 10 years left in it with careful treatment.
A great solid boat and with your budget plenty of headroom for upgrades
 
Tranona said:
That may work if it is a glued on deck, but many of these older boats are screwed on and if it is that worn then the screws will be exposed and almost certainly there will be leaks. The only sensible thing to do with teak decks that are at the end of their life is to remove them and either bite the bullet and replace with either fake or glued teak, or make good the subdeck and apply a non slip coating.

If regrooving and caulking would indeed get an extra 10 years then it is not at the end of its life and any price reduction would reflect that. In reality you have to treat each boat on its merits against the price asked.
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If you're right just about every boat around the age the OP is looking at will need a new deck soon. We've been looking for similar. A broker generally tells me that the deck is in excellent condition... and it looks spectacular because it's just been sanded. I stick a pin in the caulking between the parallel planks and I'm lucky if I see 1.5mm. I might suggest I'll make an offer less £30k. So far I've be refused because the broker knows he'll get some mug to buy as seen.

I don't know of a boat of this age and type that isn't glued. At least for all Swedish and Brit built boats the screws are there to hold the deck down while the glue goes off. Otherwise, for boats with no screws they've either weighted the deck or vacuumed it down. You can remove the screws, drill down to the gel coat, fill the screw hole with epoxy and put in a new plug. It helps to flood the bottom of the plug hole with 1mm of epoxy. This helps locate the planks. Penetrating epoxy works best.

You get a price reduction because the deck needs replaced and regrooving is not a commercial proposition. The ploy only works if you supply your own labour and about £1200 worth of caulking.

Note to OP: If there's teak on the deck take a pin with you or buy a boat with the teak already replaced or removed.
 
goeasy123 said:
If you're right just about every boat around the age the OP is looking at will need a new deck soon. We've been looking for similar. A broker generally tells me that the deck is in excellent condition... and it looks spectacular because it's just been sanded. I stick a pin in the caulking between the parallel planks and I'm lucky if I see 1.5mm. I might suggest I'll make an offer less £30k. So far I've be refused because the broker knows he'll get some mug to buy as seen.

I don't know of a boat of this age and type that isn't glued. At least for all Swedish and Brit built boats the screws are there to hold the deck down while the glue goes off. Otherwise, for boats with no screws they've either weighted the deck or vacuumed it down. You can remove the screws, drill down to the gel coat, fill the screw hole with epoxy and put in a new plug. It helps to flood the bottom of the plug hole with 1mm of epoxy. This helps locate the planks. Penetrating epoxy works best.

You get a price reduction because the deck needs replaced and regrooving is not a commercial proposition. The ploy only works if you supply your own labour and about £1200 worth of caulking.

Note to OP: If there's teak on the deck take a pin with you or buy a boat with the teak already replaced or removed.
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Our friends Rival has screwed down teak decks. In my opinion they needed removing as they were knackered. He insisted he could refurbish them. He removed screws where they were proud and filled with epoxy and new plugs. A total disaster as the planks then lifted. The deck was too thin so the glue to teak bond had failed and was relying on the screws. He has now replaced numerous planks but in my opinion it still looks like a knackered old teak deck.
The best modern teak decks are epoxied down not glued.
 
Worth considering a Bavaria Ocean 47 design by J & J ( in house Bavaria) - a clone of a HR, Moody or Oyster but within the OP' s budget. Sloop rig - not so hard to alter. Spade rudder - not been a problem . teak decks cheap and easy to maintain but needs annual inspection (glued plank on plywood base) strong hull, selden rig,
standard electric sheet winches, no awkward transom doors, large windows give plenty of light but need doubling .Rare only 24 around but there is one for sale. Alternatively consider an Amel - plenty of old ones about needing work.
 
superboots said:
Worth considering a Bavaria Ocean 47 design by J & J ( in house Bavaria) - a clone of a HR, Moody or Oyster but within the OP' s budget. Sloop rig - not so hard to alter. Spade rudder - not been a problem . teak decks cheap and easy to maintain but needs annual inspection (glued plank on plywood base) strong hull, selden rig,
standard electric sheet winches, no awkward transom doors, large windows give plenty of light but need doubling .Rare only 24 around but there is one for sale. Alternatively consider an Amel - plenty of old ones about needing work.
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Is that the model that sank recently off New Zealand with the big windows? Death of the skipper. Maybe not what the OP wants
 
true but I have some views about that - relatively easy to fix the windows for extreme weather, and in New Zeeland this is now a requirement for exit permission on all boats regardless of window size - there are many similar designs out there which could have the same problem
 
superboots said:
true but I have some views about that - relatively easy to fix the windows for extreme weather, and in New Zeeland this is now a requirement for exit permission on all boats regardless of window size - there are many similar designs out there which could have the same problem
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The OP expressed a wish to move away from an AWB. The Bavaria you suggest is an AWB with big windows. He clearly states a wish for something more Bluewater. I really don't think this is the direction he wishes to go if you read his first post.
 
geem said:
The OP expressed a wish to move away from an AWB. The Bavaria you suggest is an AWB with big windows. He clearly states a wish for something more Bluewater. I really don't think this is the direction he wishes to go if you read his first post.
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Is the Bav 47 a clone or a lookalike. I my view it would have to have a cored, double skinned hull to be a true clone. If that's the case maybe it should be on the OP's list.
Having seen a Lagoon sink last week and viewed the corpse on the hard I wouldn't want to buy anything from the Beneteau or Bavaria groups... for blue water OR coastal cruising.
 
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