Brian140
New member
I'm currently looking at a Bavaria 31 which has a Tandem Keel. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience of these keels as I'm unsure whether to steer clear of it or not.
Tandem Keel
- Thread starter Brian140
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D&T
Member
Welcome to the forum, I am sure someone will be along shortly to give you some advise.......hopefully
Slowtack
Well-known member
Dont know abou the keel but I read some of his books......................
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwick_Collins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwick_Collins
Tranona
Well-known member
One of our club members has one and seems happy with it. Had it from new. shallow draft is a big advantage where we are in Poole. Probably better than the other earlier shallow draft keel types that Bavaria used, but maybe not as good as the deep fin keel. i had a shallow keel 37 for many years and although it was not as sharp a sailor as a deep keel it was perfectly adequate.
Unless you really want that last bit of performance to windward the tandem kel should be OK. more important that the rest of the boat is in good condition and has the features you want.
Unless you really want that last bit of performance to windward the tandem kel should be OK. more important that the rest of the boat is in good condition and has the features you want.
Olianta
Member
I have an Etap 21i with tandem keel. It is a trailer sailer and the shallow draft of 0.70 m weighing 17% more (normal keel of same model is 1.30 m) enables me to launch and haul out without crane from a relatively steep slip. Of course the shallow draft apart from obvious benefits has one major draw back which I encounter on my boat - despite the good pointing ability when sailing to winward I suffer a lot of leeway.
webcraft
Well-known member
.
I have frequently sailed a Sigma 33 with a tandem wing keel in the past and found it close-winded and a good sea boat.
In addition to reduced draft pitching in a seaway is reduced and the boat can take the ground.
- W
I have frequently sailed a Sigma 33 with a tandem wing keel in the past and found it close-winded and a good sea boat.
In addition to reduced draft pitching in a seaway is reduced and the boat can take the ground.
- W
Brian140
New member
Thanks for the comments so far. All are looking positive at this stage. The boat above the waterline is everything and more that we want just a shame about the uncertainty of the keel.
Sybarite
Well-known member
A
I remember it being reviewed many décades ago when the overall opinion was that it was a good compromise between draft and performance.
As also was the Scheel keel about which you don't hear very much these days.
I remember it being reviewed many décades ago when the overall opinion was that it was a good compromise between draft and performance.
As also was the Scheel keel about which you don't hear very much these days.
markleuty
Member
We used to have one on a Beneteau First 30e.
I liked the shallow draft compared with the normal keel, but never sailed a similar boat with a normal keel so couldn't really compare it properly.
The only downside was when the boat was out of the water, it was always a nightmare anti-fouling the bottom of the wing.
Mark
I liked the shallow draft compared with the normal keel, but never sailed a similar boat with a normal keel so couldn't really compare it properly.
The only downside was when the boat was out of the water, it was always a nightmare anti-fouling the bottom of the wing.
Mark
Tranona
Well-known member
Re: A
Scheel Keel was a very specific, protected design with benefits of shallow draft and some end plate effect. However builders had to pay to use it, so fairly quickly other designers developed their own alternatives that avoided the patent.
Such keels are fairly common now, including the Farr designed keel on my new Bavaria, just not called "Scheel".
Scheel Keel was a very specific, protected design with benefits of shallow draft and some end plate effect. However builders had to pay to use it, so fairly quickly other designers developed their own alternatives that avoided the patent.
Such keels are fairly common now, including the Farr designed keel on my new Bavaria, just not called "Scheel".
anoccasionalyachtsman
Well-known member
Re: A
I remember Malcolm McKeag writing that Collins had explained that it was brilliant in a cross tide because the tide just went through the hole in the middle.
I remember Malcolm McKeag writing that Collins had explained that it was brilliant in a cross tide because the tide just went through the hole in the middle.
johnalison
Well-known member
Re: A
I remember that a common comment in boat reviews was that the difference in motion made the boat(s) feel like larger boats. A few years ago our marina office used to sport a very old yacht model, certainly prewar and possibly early 20th C which had an obvious tandem keel, which just goes to show that there is nothing new under the sun.
I remember that a common comment in boat reviews was that the difference in motion made the boat(s) feel like larger boats. A few years ago our marina office used to sport a very old yacht model, certainly prewar and possibly early 20th C which had an obvious tandem keel, which just goes to show that there is nothing new under the sun.
AndrewfromFal
Active member
I sailed a GK 29 in the early 1990s that had been retrofitted with a Tandem keel. It gave it massive stability off the wind (running dead downwind in 25-30knots with a spinnaker with surprisingly stable and in control given the 70s IOR hull shape), and upwind a lot of power to stand up to the sailplan compared to a conventionally foiled counterpart we raced against. Overall everyone who sailed on the boat liked it and was impressed by the transformation.
Downsides were as someone else mentioned, painting the underside of the keel, the boat was a bit sticky in lighter winds, and a bit wetter in a seaway as the boat would plough through waves rather than pitching over them (the plus side being the motion was gentler of course). The final niggles was that if you planted into the mud you typically needed to reverse off under power, rather than freeing yourself.
These were minor points though, and given the choice of two otherwise identical boats, one with a standard fin keel and one with a tandem, I'd pick the tandem.
Downsides were as someone else mentioned, painting the underside of the keel, the boat was a bit sticky in lighter winds, and a bit wetter in a seaway as the boat would plough through waves rather than pitching over them (the plus side being the motion was gentler of course). The final niggles was that if you planted into the mud you typically needed to reverse off under power, rather than freeing yourself.
These were minor points though, and given the choice of two otherwise identical boats, one with a standard fin keel and one with a tandem, I'd pick the tandem.
Emjaytoo
New member
We have a Bavaria 30 with a tandem keel. We opted for the shallow draft benefits which were desireable given where we sail. Mid-2000s Bavaria tandem keels do not have wing on the bottom, just a bulb so no issues with anti-fouling. At certain speeds - over three and a half knots, the tandem keel is supposed to generate lift. We have always been very happy with ours, although I did see one where the owner had filled the void in! Was he happy with the change? Who knows.
Brian140
New member
Kim, nice to get a comment from a current Bavaria owner who's happy with the keel. I think with yours and other positive comments I feel pretty comfortable about hopefully making a successful offer on the Bavaria 31.
