"Talk to a sailmaker" they said - and look what happened...

[pvb]

Buying sails is a horrible process. Many sailmakers are hopeless at communications, and like to suggest that their "art" is akin to rocket science. I reckon the best solution is to buy locally, from someone with an apparently good reputation, who actually visits the boat to measure correctly, and pay by credit card. If the sail turns out to be less than good, there's the opportunity for some recompense.

 

[dunedin]

SKyflyer - it would have helped in your initial post if you had described the boat type and type of sailing you do.

The answers could be very different - eg
- very tall, short foot jibs are very different from old IOR style 150% Genoa;
- bigger boats put more stress on sails than smaller ones,
- a First/Arcona performance cruiser will benefit from cruising laminates more than a ketch rigged Fisher motor sailor
- if you ever did dinghy racing you may hate inefficient sails and enjoy getting a boat to windward fast under sail rather than motoring
Etc

 

[Bobc]

My cross-cut genoa is now 8 years old and has done over 5,000 miles (including a transat), and is still in reasonable shape. Don't believe the hype.

 

[Concerto]

Interesting; is Hood still around and is that the Irish cloth you mean?

Hood is now a franchise run by Kemp. The only difference between Kemp and Hood sails are the badge and increased price to cover the franchise fee. They use exactly the same sailcloth. That is what I was told by them.

 

[Tranona]

Hood is now a franchise run by Kemp. The only difference between Kemp and Hood sails are the badge and increased price to cover the franchise fee. They use exactly the same sailcloth. That is what I was told by them.

Kellyseye has been told this many times - indeed everytime he posts that out of date nonsense. However he seems unwilling to accept it.

As it happens I was in the Kemp/Hood loft yesterday and what you say is correct. There is now no unique Hood cloth.

 

[vyv_cox]

When we bought new sails some 16 years ago we bought Hood Vectran (now Vektron) based upon their excellent performance in the original British Steel circumnavigation race. The cost was something like 30% more than the same sails in Dacron but all these years later they are still in excellent shape, although restitched several times. The previous Dacron genoa was a terrible shape after only three or four years. The only criticism is that the cloth is a heavy grade, so we have difficulty holding their shape in very light winds.

 

[ashtead]

Plus 1 for Vektron which we used for the replacement headsail on our last boat and seemed to be much better than the original elvstrom fitted . This was based on advice of helpful Lymington sailmaker who being local was able to visit and discuss replacement. With little sail buying experience i think you just have to spend time speaking to your sailmaker and explains needs plus researching views of others.

 

[skyflyer]

With little sail buying experience i think you just have to spend time speaking to your sailmaker and explains needs plus researching views of others.

Which is exactly how this thread started!

 

[alant]

Plus 1 for Vektron which we used for the replacement headsail on our last boat and seemed to be much better than the original elvstrom fitted . This was based on advice of helpful Lymington sailmaker who being local was able to visit and discuss replacement. With little sail buying experience i think you just have to spend time speaking to your sailmaker and explains needs plus researching views of others.

Would that be Sanders Sails @ Lymington?

 

[Champagne Murphy]

+1 for Crusader. Paul Lees came to the boat and measured, advised on cloth (different ones on main and Genoa), advised on cut and set up, gave a choice of cloths all for the same price where others were asking different prices for different cloths. They were made in the UK, delivered early and made a radical difference to performance. Cost for main, genoa, stackpack, spray hood and dodgers was LESS than one manufacturer wanted for a single genoa made in China.
Like you, I was confused by advice and choice so in the end I let him make most of them. That kind of experience is helpful!

 

[dom]

....advised on cut and set up, gave a choice of cloths all for the same price where others were asking different prices for different cloths. They were made in the UK, delivered early and made a radical difference to performance. Cost for main, genoa, stackpack, spray hood and dodgers was LESS than one manufacturer wanted for a single genoa made in China.

I sometimes think these posts would be so much more interesting if some rough dims, prices, cuts and cloths were mentioned. Just a personal opinion !

 

[john_morris_uk]

FWIW the two sailmakers I trust without a thought are Peter Sanders and Crusader.

Sanders never advertises (which says something about their name and reputation...)

Crusader have consistently good reviews and comments on these forums.

In the past we have bought from a local sailmaker and more recently from Sanders and haven't been disappointed with either. (Local sailmaker in Plymouth no longer makes sails so can't recommend.)

I'm sure other good sailmakers are available.

 

[skyflyer]

I sometimes think these posts would be so much more interesting if some rough dims, prices, cuts and cloths were mentioned. Just a personal opinion !

point taken, but see HEALTH WARNING* below!

135% Genoa for 32ft cruiser; no racing. "I' approx 13m "J" approx 4m

Manufacturer A - crosscut - depending on polyester sailcloth from £1100 to £1500, or with Vectron £1900
Manufacturer B - crosscut £1150 fabric choice doesn't change price
Manufacturer B - radial £1530 fabric choice doesn't change price
Manufacturer C - crosscut Marblehead fabric £1700
Manufacturer D - HSX fabric crosscut £1850
Manufacturer E - crosscut - from £2200 to £2900 depending on fabric, most expensive being Marblehead

All include UV strip, Luff foam and VAT.

If you just consider crosscut 'standard' polyester you gat a variance of £1150 to £2900; notwithstanding that some of the bells and whistles will differ thats is still one hell of a range of prices!

*HEALTH WARNING: You may wish to infer or guess which manufacturer is which from this information but i don't think it is fair to name any, as at the end of the day they have given me an estimate and suggested a sailcloth (or options for same) based on the info I gave. So whilst they all had the identical "brief" to quote from and the COMPARISONS are valid for MY PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES, I do not think it is necessarily fair to extrapolate to your own boat and own situation. e.g. maybe manufacturer E would be more competitive for what you want to do with your own boat?)

 

[Concerto]

+1 for Crusader. Paul Lees came to the boat and measured, advised on cloth (different ones on main and Genoa), advised on cut and set up, gave a choice of cloths all for the same price where others were asking different prices for different cloths. They were made in the UK, delivered early and made a radical difference to performance. Cost for main, genoa, stackpack, spray hood and dodgers was LESS than one manufacturer wanted for a single genoa made in China.
Like you, I was confused by advice and choice so in the end I let him make most of them. That kind of experience is helpful!

When I was choosing a sailmaker, I went to Crusader amongst others. I discussed my requirements with Roger Lees at the London Boat Show and he changed the specification of the genoa from Vectron to ordinary Dacron, I believe to reduce the overall cost to make them look more competative. This I did not like, so discarded them. I had been favourably inclinded towards Crusader as in the past I have dealt with Paul Lees and bought a complete set of 6 sails for another boat.

 

[niccapotamus]

+1 for crusader. just bought a cruising chute, had a stack pack and some work done on main and they were at all times helpful, competitive, good with delivery times - nothing to complain about

 

[dom]

point taken, but see HEALTH WARNING* below!

135% Genoa for 32ft cruiser; no racing. "I' approx 13m "J" approx 4m

Manufacturer A - crosscut - depending on polyester sailcloth from £1100 to £1500, or with Vectron £1900
Manufacturer B - crosscut £1150 fabric choice doesn't change price
Manufacturer B - radial £1530 fabric choice doesn't change price
Manufacturer C - crosscut Marblehead fabric £1700
Manufacturer D - HSX fabric crosscut £1850
Manufacturer E - crosscut - from £2200 to £2900 depending on fabric, most expensive being Marblehead

Very useful. Just dashing and I'm not familiar with precise Marblehead characteristics. But notwithstanding your previous comments to the contrary, alongside the fact that you clearly want your boat to go better, I'm still not so sure that you should exclude Vectron. You might be able to squeeze a little something on price if you give the sailmaker a non-time-critical order?

The thing with Dacron is that it actually dies surprisingly quickly from a shape perspective, but then lasts forever before falling apart !

 

[ashtead]

Yes Alant it was sanders sails based near Force 4 shop in Lym

 

[LadyInBed]

Thanks all for an interesting discussion. I know nothing about cloth quality or cut but I do like to keep my money in MY pocket! On that basis, Manufacturer B would be my choice as cloth type doesn't affect what looks to be a reasonable price.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Thanks all for an interesting discussion. I know nothing about cloth quality or cut but I do like to keep my money in MY pocket! On that basis, Manufacturer B would be my choice as cloth type doesn't affect what looks to be a reasonable price.

That'll be Crusader then!:encouragement: