Swim boarding

LadyInBed said:
(y) and he is talking about a Swim Ladder, so will probably only be using it in calm conditions.
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Yes, it was a swim ladder I was asking about, but it would be good if it could be used as an emergency dual function item. There is a limit to what can be carried on a small boat.
 
If you've just used the dinghy, couldn't she just get into that and thence onto the ladder like the rest of you did.
You need to think about mob retrieval though. I never had a system for rescuing an unconscious or incapacitated one. Kind of hoping it won't happen but this is not a good plan.
 
roaringgirl said:
My wife and I spent a day practicing getting an unconscious casualty back on board. Our conclusion was that if they're unconscious, someone will have to get in the water to get them out, by tieing them to a halyard.
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If sailing short handed such as a Couple or family with kids, both adults in the ogin is not a good plan!!
 
agree with previous posters, in the Med, warm water, wearing only swimming trunks and being reasonably fit, I'd struggle with 2 steps in the water and not a pole or something going vertically up to grab.
now add clothes, shock and cold water in the equation I think I'd prefer one of these superyacht passarelles that turn from straight to steps going deep in the water :rolleyes:
Whatever you do, think also that there must be something solid to hold as you try to pull your self out of the water, steps are not really enough
 
roaringgirl said:
How else would you attach an unconscious casualty to a lifting system? Have you tried?
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By launching an inflatable, or even a life-raft and working from that. The plan would be to launch the inflatable, ensure it is really securely secured to the mother ship (two painters at least!), manoeuver the dinghy next to the casualty; use the push-down and lift technique to get the casualty over the side of the dinghy (letting some air out of the tube if necessary) and then worry about getting the casualty onto the mother ship.

I sail single-handed at the moment, or with inexperienced crew, and there's no way I'd go into the water to rescue someone; that would merely change a situation with one casualty into one with two. I have enormous respect - from experience - of the speed with which immersion in cold water saps your strength.

Frankly, in UK waters, the utility of a swim ladder for the recovery of a MOB will be very limited. On the Sea Survival course I did, I found that even in a heated swimming pool with a solid, secure ladder, it took all my strength to climb out of the water in saturated clothes and oilskins. And that was 10 years ago - I'm ten years older now, and ten years less able to do physical stuff. There's no way it would be possible for a cold person to climb a ladder in a MOB situation.

I think it is necessary to distinguish different scenarios. What might well work in the relatively warm waters of the Mediterranean or Carribean would not work in the much colder waters around the UK. Further, a person who is dressed for swimming and is experienced in sea swimming will be in a very different position to someone who is a MOB, and possible injured or even unconscious.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
By launching an inflatable, or even a life-raft and working from that. The plan would be to launch the inflatable, ensure it is really securely secured to the mother ship (two painters at least!), manoeuver the dinghy next to the casualty; use the push-down and lift technique to get the casualty over the side of the dinghy (letting some air out of the tube if necessary) and then worry about getting the casualty onto the mother ship.

I sail single-handed at the moment, or with inexperienced crew, and there's no way I'd go into the water to rescue someone; that would merely change a situation with one casualty into one with two. I have enormous respect - from experience - of the speed with which immersion in cold water saps your strength.

Frankly, in UK waters, the utility of a swim ladder for the recovery of a MOB will be very limited. On the Sea Survival course I did, I found that even in a heated swimming pool with a solid, secure ladder, it took all my strength to climb out of the water in saturated clothes and oilskins. And that was 10 years ago - I'm ten years older now, and ten years less able to do physical stuff. There's no way it would be possible for a cold person to climb a ladder in a MOB situation.

I think it is necessary to distinguish different scenarios. What might well work in the relatively warm waters of the Mediterranean or Carribean would not work in the much colder waters around the UK. Further, a person who is dressed for swimming and is experienced in sea swimming will be in a very different position to someone who is a MOB, and possible injured or even unconscious.
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When we're offshore, the dinghy is on the foredeck and the tubes are deflated. I've never tried deploying it in any kind of swell, it would take about an hour on my own including inflating and probably cause another MOB. So you'd be looking at deploying the liferaft, which would then leave you without a liferaft for up to 3000 miles!
 
roaringgirl said:
When we're offshore, the dinghy is on the foredeck and the tubes are deflated. I've never tried deploying it in any kind of swell, it would take about an hour on my own including inflating and probably cause another MOB. So you'd be looking at deploying the liferaft, which would then leave you without a liferaft for up to 3000 miles!
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Yes, of course, things depend on the size of crew, size of boat and nature of gear available.
I have sailed on a big boat with c.18 crew, where two lucky individuals were tasked with - and trained and provided drysuits - to be lowered into the water to secure a MOB.
But a different world from a typical couple or family cruiser.
Not all MOB are in big swell - often calm water can lead to slight complacency. And you choose to have no dinghy ready to deploy, whereas we carry a dinghy ready to launch on davits.
Skipper choices
 
As previously mentioned rope ladders are extremely difficult to climb. They tend to swing under the boat as you climb up them.

However I wouldn't discount one. If you only need a 1 or 2 step extension this swing effect will be far less. It wouldn't be hard to cut down a longer ladder to make a little extension. Attach it on both sides then to prevent twisting. It would certainly be a massive improvement for not much money or effort. Even as a temporary measure this year and get a proper ladder sorted over winter.

Additionally rope ladders are very useful in the dingy. Not everyone can climb into a dingy and a rope ladder makes it so much easier.
 
ghostlymoron said:
If you've just used the dinghy, couldn't she just get into that and thence onto the ladder like the rest of you did.
You need to think about mob retrieval though. I never had a system for rescuing an unconscious or incapacitated one. Kind of hoping it won't happen but this is not a good plan.
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She couldn't get herself into the Dinghy either. I think being younger, more agile, stronger and fitter would all have helped.

MOB retrieval seems to be impossible to extremely difficult for a short handed crew on a small boat. Maybe possible in benign conditions with MOB having no, or only insignificant injuries. I'd Chalenge any man to get his wife aboard on his own, even with life slings etc.

I've read about these things but the swim incident has certain ly highlighted the difficulties to me.

In 15 years of boat ownership thus was the first time we had tries to swim to the boat. My only previous experience of swimming to a boat was on med charters, and both boats had suger scoop sterns and ladders that had an easily accessible bottom step for a swimmer.

I think My best plan would be to move the existing ladder lower down the transom so the folding bottom rung is deep enough.

This may mean a new ladder. But hey, it's all part of the (expensive) yachting learning curve.
 
roaringgirl said:
When we're offshore, the dinghy is on the foredeck and the tubes are deflated. I've never tried deploying it in any kind of swell, it would take about an hour on my own including inflating and probably cause another MOB. So you'd be looking at deploying the liferaft, which would then leave you without a liferaft for up to 3000 miles!
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You could still tow the liferaft.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I think I've read that cavers climb ladders "sideways on", presumably for the same reason. But I'm sure a speleologist will be along in a minute to correct me!
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Another method is to do one rung with your toe and the other, reaching around the side, with you heel. It helps if the ladder is very narrow, about 4-6 inches, and the reason is to keep the ladder right against you crotch, so you can keep you weight over your feet.Same with the hands; one on one side, the other around the back.

Don't lean away from a rope ladder. Keep it right against your chest and keep your feet under you.
 
I note a curious lack of actual in-water MOB exercises. Yup, done a few, including hoisting a limp body. Without practice,theorizing means little. Do it.

The lack of practical methods for attaching lifting tackle is also concerning. First, it would help if the crew all wore harnesses or PFD/harness combos; then all you need to do is clip. Yes, there are conditions where entering the water is quite dangerous, but not always. I can remember two off-shore swims in moderate conditions (3- to 6-foot waves, 10-15 knots) just to clear lines from running gear. Not that big a deal, with a few common sense precautions. I guess few grew up surfing and playing in waves?
 
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