Suzuki 2.2DT woes

[ianc1200]

Back in July my 2005-ish Suzuki started giving problems; initially flooding carburettor, cleaned several times then later no flow of water (identified as a plug of salt just above the impeller), then refusing to start, apart from when in the marina outboard tank it would go without the propeller off, then not at all. I handed it to the engineers at the marina workshop who weren't successful and their opinion was it had been left leg up, and water had got into the head and rusted the piston rings. The effort to pull the start cord was noticeably much more.

I'm not very good with engines, but with some time on my hands I had a look last week. The engine turned over easily without the spark plug in, but lots of effort with the plug in place. Having read several other threads on here I began to wonder about salt in the passage ways under the power head, so removed this, but found it and the long copper tube remarkably clean. I then removed the head and found a hole in the gasket where there shouldn't have been one. Convinced this was the cause of the back pressure I ordered a new gasket - but whilst there seems less effort to pull it over (I'm guessing now similar to as it was previously when it worked) all I get every now and then is a single "bang" which I wonder is it misfiring.

I've checked the spark by holding against the metal body of the engine (having replaced the plug about five times at least) & it seems fine. Petrol is from August.

I've sprayed petrol into the plug hole & all I get is the odd "bang" but mainly nothing.

I've checked & there is petrol in the bowl (it should be clean enough after multiple cleanings earlier in the year).

Having looked at 2 stroke engine fault analysis I suspect the coil - perhaps the plug will spark only outside the chamber not under compression.

One a previous thread I have read it's not possible to get the timing wrong (as say on a Seagull).

Having got the time and the interest I want to try and fix it and understand the problems - I'm thinking of getting a compression tester kit & a spark plug testing kit which says the coil is tested as well

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-HT...678?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5641e98dc6

(if I solve this I have a few Seagulls to have a got at as well)

But is there anything obvious I'm missing, or something else I should be looking at?

 

[Happydaze]

Check that it is petrol and not water in the float chamber. For some reason water keeps getting back into mine, i change the fuel, run it through and all is well for a while then i get a lack of revs and it stops. when i drain the float chamber it's water that comes out again at first and finally the petrol and off we go again, for a while. If you put the spark plug in and try to start and then remove the plug and it is wet, it could be water not petrol so you could think it's a spark problem when it's not.

 

[propnut]

<One a previous thread I have read it's not possible to get the timing wrong>

Just s thought but have you hit a submerged object hard when you last used it ? Could be the flywheel key has sheared.That will put the timing out but the engine will still spark.Caught me out a few times.

 

[ianc1200]

Thanks for the thoughts and have cleaned out the bowl and ensured petrol only, will examine the flywheel also soon. Having had another go I'm not sure there is petrol on the plug; seems dry and no smell of petrol. How safe would it be to spray some Easy Start just to see if it will fire so eliminating coil/timing issues?

 

[Beyondhelp]

Put a small teaspoon amount of fuel in the spark plug hole and give it a tug and see what happens then.

 

[vyv_cox]

Easystart is a good option but with a two stroke engine you need to be very careful using it as there will be no oil in the fuel. Give it a few good pulls with petrol mix first, then sparingly with the Easystart. I use this method with some of my garden equipment, it does prove that the electrical side is OK.

In your case I would lok at the piston rings. Varying compression sounds odd.

 

[ronsurf]

Sounds like a fuel problem to me. I would clean and check the jets and make sure the needle valve and float are working properly. Everything else seems to be fine. Reassemble the carb but leave the bottom off the chamber. You should be able to blow through the fuel line, then when you push the carburettor float, it should block. If you can't blow through it then find where the blockage is, either in the fuel line or a jet.

Put it all back together and try it again. If you're getting spark, then that side is probably fine. If it's harder to pull with the plug in then you have compression.

First thing I would do is change the fuel. Put some fresh petrol in and give it a chance. I find engineers are really not too bothered about small outboards as there's not much return for the time it can take to fix them. I suspect they view them as more disposable..

 

[macd]

Thanks for the thoughts and have cleaned out the bowl and ensured petrol only, will examine the flywheel also soon. Having had another go I'm not sure there is petrol on the plug; seems dry and no smell of petrol. How safe would it be to spray some Easy Start just to see if it will fire so eliminating coil/timing issues?

The plug should be wet after repeated attempts to start. Like the last poster, I suspect fuel not getting through. Is choke working? Is float valve reassembled correctly? Take off float bowl, turn on fuel, lift float - fuel should pour out.

 

[NickRobinson]

I note the OP got it back from a failed attempt to fettle by 'Marina Engineers' and it has not run since.

I'd want to check they assembled it correctly, they may have just made it up as a bag of bits. For example, if the carb was loose or they had omitted carb/manifold gaskets, that could explain a dry plug.

 

[LadyInBed]

No mention of doing anything with the points (access under the start cord recoil). Mine is older than yours and has points, I don't know if they switched to electronic ignition.
If it is points, emery paper and regap.

 

[ianc1200]

Just returned from work having purchased a can of Easystart. I squirted a little in the bore - nothing. Then squirted quite a bit more - again nothing. Took the plug out, and earthed it against the body, had a big spark. the workshop now reeks of Easystart, so stopping for a while, but strongly suspect the electronic ignition (which it is on this model).

I will still check out all the jets; I have had the carb off so often this summer it's the work of seconds to check out.

Thanks for all the thoughts, really useful to get other ideas & issues to check out.

The outboard itself is so clean & new looking it seems very worthwhile tracking down the problem.

 

[Beyondhelp]

What plug are you using?

 

[ianc1200]

Various NGK plugs I've seen recommended for this engine, but this week a BR5HS because it came with the gaskets, impeller & gear oil from a servicing kit. Previously it like a B-4H. I'm also feeling Beyondhelp, but grateful for the help I'm getting here!

 

[dartmoor]

Does sound like the engine is not pulling through fuel. Sadly that could be caused by poor crankcase sealing which would mean an insufficient vacuum to suck through the fuel. It can be pretty terminal as really its a complete rebuild which may not be economic. Two strokes absolutely rely on the crankcase seal - once compromised, no amount of coaxing will make it start. You could possibly check the tightness of all bolts, and increase the oil fuel mix. But if this doesn't work, it might not be good.

 

[tawhiri]

I replaced the piston rings of my 2HP Suzuki a cople of years ago, and she is a different machine now starting first time. The ring set was not very expensive, about 10 quid or so.

 

[robertj]

A good friend had exactly the same problem.
One add on cured it completely.

Check that it is petrol and not water in the float chamber. For some reason water keeps getting back into mine, i change the fuel, run it through and all is well for a while then i get a lack of revs and it stops. when i drain the float chamber it's water that comes out again at first and finally the petrol and off we go again, for a while. If you put the spark plug in and try to start and then remove the plug and it is wet, it could be water not petrol so you could think it's a spark problem when it's not.

 

[ianat182]

Two more options for you.Have you located the fuel filter from the tank and checked it?It seems to be a built in job at the on /off tap on mine.
If the fuel is OK check that the stop button has not shorted itself, I suspect you would get a spark ,earthing elsewhere , even if it has become shorted.
My engine will not start with any choke applied unless very cold,maybe yours too?.

Ianat182

 

[Redfox226]

Have you checked the Head Gasket?

 

[ianc1200]

Thanks for all the thoughts so far. Please let me know where I'm wrong in my logic etc.

I've got a new pointless ignition coil ordered (£105 + P&P). This is because there is a good spark when the plug is earthed to the body, but nothing when the plug is in position and Easystart is sprayed into the chamber.

Having said that, I'm still concerned the problem is petrol. The plug doesn't seem wet with petrol after turning over and failing to start.

Petrol comes out of the pipe when detached from the carb.

Removing the screw at the base of the bowl petrol comes out.

Removing the carb there is good suck when turning the motor over into the housing, but there's no discernible suck through the jets when I try with the upper half of the carb in position.

I've unscrewed the larger jet, it seemed clean enough. I can blow through both jets.

I left the upper half of the carb in Redex overnight (assuming this might clean out any residue)

On the stb side of the carb there are two screws, the mixture, turned 1.25 out, and the throttle stop screw. However there is a third threaded hole with nothing in. The exploded parts diagram of this carb is from the wrong side so doesn't help, but I've put the carb on it's side and put Redex, petrol in, which doesn't leak away (I'm looking for possible air leaks to explain any lack of suck). Holding my thumb over this hole when turning over produces no difference.

I still have yet to see if the flywheel key has sheared, will do.

I like the suggestion of changing the rings, seems daunting to me but I want to have a go at this.

I've noticed all references to this engine re parts, diagrams etc, stop in years terms at 1997 but mine was bought new in 2005, and the 1997 diagrams seem to be as per mine.

I have a compression tester and a spark plug tester ordered perhaps I've gone beyond needing these.

Thanks for the thoughts & please let me know any fault in my reasoning.

 

[dartmoor]

Thanks for all the thoughts so far. Please let me know where I'm wrong in my logic etc.

I've got a new pointless ignition coil ordered (£105 + P&P). This is because there is a good spark when the plug is earthed to the body, but nothing when the plug is in position and Easystart is sprayed into the chamber.

Having said that, I'm still concerned the problem is petrol. The plug doesn't seem wet with petrol after turning over and failing to start.

Petrol comes out of the pipe when detached from the carb.

Removing the screw at the base of the bowl petrol comes out.

Removing the carb there is good suck when turning the motor over into the housing, but there's no discernible suck through the jets when I try with the upper half of the carb in position.

I've unscrewed the larger jet, it seemed clean enough. I can blow through both jets.

I left the upper half of the carb in Redex overnight (assuming this might clean out any residue)

On the stb side of the carb there are two screws, the mixture, turned 1.25 out, and the throttle stop screw. However there is a third threaded hole with nothing in. The exploded parts diagram of this carb is from the wrong side so doesn't help, but I've put the carb on it's side and put Redex, petrol in, which doesn't leak away (I'm looking for possible air leaks to explain any lack of suck). Holding my thumb over this hole when turning over produces no difference.

I still have yet to see if the flywheel key has sheared, will do.

I like the suggestion of changing the rings, seems daunting to me but I want to have a go at this.

I've noticed all references to this engine re parts, diagrams etc, stop in years terms at 1997 but mine was bought new in 2005, and the 1997 diagrams seem to be as per mine.

I have a compression tester and a spark plug tester ordered perhaps I've gone beyond needing these.

Thanks for the thoughts & please let me know any fault in my reasoning.

Wow - you must love that engine! I think I'd have cut my losses by now...

Changing rings will mean some new gaskets, so I suppose that's not a bad idea. The rings should not be too expensive. Pulling it apart should give you the opportunity to thoroughly clean out all the water cooling passageways.