Survival suits - popular amongst yachtmen?

bbg said:
I think you will find that almost all people who go aboard cruise ships neither drown nor freeze. You are probably much more likely to suffer a heart attack or slip and fall.

Personally, carrying a wetsuit for an event that is almost certain NOT to happen would annoy me no end. You can think of all kinds
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But if you'r a long term cruiser it would be a sound idea to have a wetsuit for that occasion when you need to investigate below etc... ??
 
I've used a professional survival suit in the Antarctic - it was required equipment for ANY boat trip. I'm wearing it in my avatar picture! Note that water temperatures in Antarctica aren't much different from North Atlantic temperatures; the stuff turns solid if it gets any colder.

However, as practical equipment for a yacht, I'd seriously doubt their utility.

  1. They are awkward to get on and off; it takes longer than you might have in an emergency. It took me maybe 10 minutes to get one on; maybe less, but not a lot less.
  2. They restrict movement severely, especially one-size-fits-all ones (I am on the small side, and suffered badly from this).
  3. They are VERY warm; normal exertion (even in Antarctica!) will leave you swimming in sweat. They are most definitely NOT breathable!

So, I'd say that while they are essential kit in the right circumstances, those circumstances aren't going to apply on a yacht very often. They are perfect for situations where you will not be exerting yourself much (ideally, at all), or where you have ample warning of needing them and/or plenty of time to change into it. Most emergencies that would imply immersion in UK waters would happen too quickly!

Note that wet suits aren't a substitute for a survival suit; the wet suit operates by trapping water next to your skin, which your body then warms - just as your body warms the air trapped in your usual clothes. But water is a far better conductor of heat than air is, so if the temperature difference is large (36 degrees C human, 1-2 degrees C water) the heat loss from a wet suit will be too large for your body to keep up with it - and, of course, you still get a cold shock on entering the water. Diving in Antarctic waters (which aren't far off North Atlantic temperatures) is a strictly dry-suit only business.

PS, they are also VERY bulky to store - I doubt my 31' Moody would have space for them.
 
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Scotty_Tradewind said:
But if you'r a long term cruiser it would be a sound idea to have a wetsuit for that occasion when you need to investigate below etc... ??
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Agreed, a wetsuit would be a useful piece of equipment for a long-term cruiser as a tool. But the OP said this:

whenever I go any distance aboard any ship in any weather, I'll make certain my wetsuit is in my luggage.
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I agree with Antarctic Pilot that it is unlikely to be useful for most cruisers. Especially cruise-ship cruisers.
 
The Royal Air Force - and the RN - invested very considerably, over decades, in the knowledge and kit they needed to keep expensive aircrew alive in event of cold water immersion after 'throwing an aircraft away'. There have been lots of those events over the years, and lots of research and investigations, to inform the policy that 'flight over water where the sea temperature is likely to be 10°C or less requires the mandatory wearing of an immersion suit....". So the guys fly in them.

Simply put, you won't last long enough without one.

Consider the clothing worn by RNLI Lifeboat crews.....

When I was young, I was invincible and expected to live forever. I could swim for hours. Accidents happened to others.... :rolleyes:

Now I am not, I have a Musto Ocean HPX drysuit complete with pee-tube. It takes me well less than 10 minutes to get into it, and in 'urgency' I reckon I'd readily cut even that time in half. That's about the same time as pulling on a conventional two-piece. I've timed it.....

If ever I find myself in a liferaft again, I'll be far more likely to survive in my drysuit than shivering in six inches of water, in my sodden two-piece.
 
oldbilbo said:
Now I am not, I have a Musto Ocean HPX drysuit complete with pee-tube. It takes me well less than 10 minutes to get into it, and in 'urgency' I reckon I'd readily cut even that time in half. That's about the same time as pulling on a conventional two-piece. I've timed it.....
.
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serious question...
not wishing to take the thread into the 'lounge' area of discussion, how do these 'pee-tube' things fit etc..?
 
I wear a breathable drysuit for dinghy sailing in the colder months. It's great, but I doubt it would survive a long passage on many yachts without either wearing out or getting torn on something.
It takes very little time to put on.

Unless you have a very serious diving wetsuit, you will still get very cold after an hour in the water, I reckon the trapped water in a set of foulies would be a more effective insulator than the thin layer of a wetsuit, provided you can fast the wrists/ankles/neck to stop water flushing through.
The drysuit is also handy for swimming around the boat attacking the weed.
 
lw395 said:
I wear a breathable drysuit for dinghy sailing in the colder months. It's great, but I doubt it would survive a long passage on many yachts without either wearing out or getting torn on something.
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Most of the big manufacturers make drysuits that are more robust. I have an Ursuit which is very very good. They just signed a contract to supply several hundred suits to the SNSM (French equivalent of RNLA). But they ain't cheap: €1600 for a Goretex version.
 
oldbilbo said:
The Royal Air Force - and the RN - invested very considerably, over decades, in the knowledge and kit they needed to keep expensive aircrew alive in event of cold water immersion after 'throwing an aircraft away'. ...
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Apparently the average time a fit individual can hold their breath after plunging into cold water is 5 seconds! This is due to the bodies cold shock response. So to have any realistic chance of exiting an immersed helicopter everyone has to wear immersion suits.

To me this means that if you have to jump unprotected into a cold sea the priority is to maintain a clear airway at least until the cold response has passed.
 
prv said:
Indeed - but seems rather messy if you're planning to use it on the surface!

Pete
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The mess doesn't matter as you are wearing a drysuit :) Also known as a Catholic Condom:D

I have a Fladden 2 piece buoyancy suit, very warm, often too warm to sail in. But in the event of emergency it could be chucked into the liferaft and got into later.

The RN has once only survival suits that are pretty quick to get into, but I'm not sure there would be time to get it properly done up in a sinking yacht. If they are not put on properly the suit can drown the wearer. Either the legs are full of air and hold you upside down, or the neck is open and it fills up with water stopping you swimming.
 
lw395 said:
Unless you have a very serious diving wetsuit, you will still get very cold after an hour in the water, I reckon the trapped water in a set of foulies would be a more effective insulator than the thin layer of a wetsuit, provided you can fast the wrists/ankles/neck to stop water flushing through.
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Both these points are incorrect. A modern wetsuit allows many hours in the water even in cold weather. Just visit my local beaches during a good surfing day on any winter day no matter how cold). Wet suits off the 80's were pretty rubbish but they use some amazing materials these days. I've personally spent 2+ hours in the water on days where I left snow tracks on the way to the water.

A wetsuit would offer much, much more protection than a set of foulies. I'd have no problem being in the water for a few hours in my wetsuit, I wouldn't want to do 2 minutes in my sailing gear, even when the water is at its warmest here.
 
The Mullion Aquafloat?

Note to self - don't buy one of those.
From Nevis's description, it doesn't sound much better than various deaths resultant from not having a survival suit.
 
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Have just unearthed my Ravenspring Dry Suit (left over from RIB driving days) to be sent away for new seals & boots to be fitted. :)
 
Slycat said:
Both these points are incorrect. A modern wetsuit allows many hours in the water even in cold weather. Just visit my local beaches during a good surfing day on any winter day no matter how cold). Wet suits off the 80's were pretty rubbish but they use some amazing materials these days. I've personally spent 2+ hours in the water on days where I left snow tracks on the way to the water.

A wetsuit would offer much, much more protection than a set of foulies. I'd have no problem being in the water for a few hours in my wetsuit, I wouldn't want to do 2 minutes in my sailing gear, even when the water is at its warmest here.
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1) When the snow is on the ground, the sea is not at its coldest.
2) Surfing or sailing you will keep warm for 2 hours generating heat, both are pretty physical. Even with a modern dive wetsuit, people have been in serious hypothermic trouble after 5 or six hours on the surface, in UK waters. Any wetsuit will extend your survival time, but not by ever so much. Maybe enough to make the difference maybe not.
A drysuit is simply in a different league.
 
lw395 said:
Any wetsuit will extend your survival time, but not by ever so much. Maybe enough to make the difference maybe not.
A drysuit is simply in a different league.
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My old copy of the BSAC diving manual talks about people diving under Arctic ice in very thick wetsuits, although that's not something anyone would contemplate today. So wetsuit "technology" can do the job, albeit a drysuit will be more comfortable - especially on first entering the water :eek:

The abandon-ship suits on Stavros would be best considered as semi-dry (ie a glorified wetsuit - semi-wet has always seemed a better description). Boots and gloves are integral (thin rubber gloves with thick mittens to go over) and the zip is the waterproof type, but there's no neck seal as such, just a hood that does up tight round the face. I'm pretty sure you'd get some water inside if you went swimming.

Pete
 
prv said:
My old copy of the BSAC diving manual talks about people diving under Arctic ice in very thick wetsuits, although that's not something anyone would contemplate today. So wetsuit "technology" can do the job, albeit a drysuit will be more comfortable - especially on first entering the water :eek:

The abandon-ship suits on Stavros would be best considered as semi-dry (ie a glorified wetsuit - semi-wet has always seemed a better description). Boots and gloves are integral (thin rubber gloves with thick mittens to go over) and the zip is the waterproof type, but there's no neck seal as such, just a hood that does up tight round the face. I'm pretty sure you'd get some water inside if you went swimming.

Pete
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Yes, people can survive in cold water, some even seem to enjoy it!
The water under the ice is 0degreesC, the water in the serpentine where nutters swim on Boxing day is only marginally more, and they wear no real insulation at all.

Other people can't cope with a 15 degC swimming pool for more than 20minutes, even if they are doing enough exercise to generate some heat.

Do the 'abandon ship' suits have much actual insulation? Or are they just a thin waterproof 'membrane'?
 
There is a big difference between TPA's and immersion suits. We have 8 TPAs on board only because the boat is coded, and I could put one TPA in my pocket. I don't think they would be much use in a real and prolonged exposure situation. I was looking at the immersion suits on one of our vessels - they are made by Crewsaver. However, they are very cumbersome and I think the dry suit option is best suited(!) to the yacht situation. I will certainly be looking into getting a couple.

Cheers,

Michael.
 
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