Survey to berth?

[elioti75]

Hi there, I've a 48ft Degroot motorboat that I've been doing up, and it's nearly ready to go into the water. I've been offered a private pontoon berth, but the Salcombe harbour authority said I can't put the boat in the water without a hull survey because I've recently been working in the boat. The hull is in excellent condition now. I will have a survey when all interior us completed. I understand the harbour authority not wanting a liability, but see it as unfair, why as me for a hull survey when they don't ask every vessel the same. Wondered on thoughts on this , wether they can request this, or if even legal asking me and not everyone? Unsure where I stand?

 

[Portofino]

Show them the wreck removal para of your presumed insurance policy .Assume it covers enough £ to rid it if it sinks ?

Who is insuring it may I ask ? I mean have you fully disclosed the situation , condition and remedial work ? If so don’t you think a condition survey will defuse any ammo in there refute gun ……..should something happen whereby your refurb skills are called into question?

 

[elioti75]

I would have wreck recovery for £3m. Forgot to say it's a Steel vessel, I've replaced roughly 2 , 8x4 sheets of metal on the hull. Replaced parts that didn't really need replacing, I wanted it to be perfect. I've agreed to the survey now, though it's an extra cost I didn't need in moving the boat. Figure if I didn't agree, they'd find a different reason to be awkward. It's the principal of it though. Understand if the harbour want to limit liability, but can't figure out why demand this of me, yet a vessel may enter the harbour without such demands, if ask me then they should be asking everyone? Do harbour authorities have powers to decide this? The harbour master called me, asked what I'd do if someone sinks my boat, I'd claim on their insurance I replied. But they may vanish he said. I'd have wreck recovery, it's unlikely any vessel would sink mine without sinking themselves. I'd just like to know the legal side of things. If they can legally ask me to have a survey, they could legally request this from everyone? This would restrict some vessels entering? Happy to have a survey, but wasn't planning just yet.

 

[colhel]

Did the insurance company want a survey?
Harbour Authorities usually insist on insurance, but never heard of one insisting on a survey

 

[oldgit]

In order to insure you will almost certainly need to provide a hard copy of a survey of some description in order for them to estimate risk and usually they ask about experience as well.
Most marinas require to see proof of insurance.
Even our small boat club demands that you have insurance and requires proof of it being renewed every 12 months as a condition of mooring.
Salvage costs and claims from nearbye craft the priority for them.

 

[volvopaul]

I remember a good surveyor friend of mine was not allowed to work in the harbour because they said he wasn’t insured when in actual fact he was covered to work anywhere, they then said he needed an appointment to work in advance , again another load of rubbish . It sounds to me like some kind of restricted practice with bylaws to suit which direction the wind is blowing on that particular day .

 

[doug748]

Hi there, I've a 48ft Degroot motorboat that I've been doing up, and it's nearly ready to go into the water. I've been offered a private pontoon berth, but the Salcombe harbour authority said I can't put the boat in the water without a hull survey because I've recently been working in the boat. The hull is in excellent condition now. I will have a survey when all interior us completed. I understand the harbour authority not wanting a liability, but see it as unfair, why as me for a hull survey when they don't ask every vessel the same. Wondered on thoughts on this , wether they can request this, or if even legal asking me and not everyone? Unsure where I stand?

I am no expert but believe that harbour authorities have very wide powers to act on their own initiative in all sorts of situations. This is from the Government Port Marine Safety Code:

"Dangerous Vessel Directions 4.10
A harbour master may give directions prohibiting the entry into, or requiring the removal from, the harbour of any vessel if, in their opinion, the condition of that vessel, or the nature or condition of anything it contains, is such that its presence in the harbour might involve a grave and imminent danger to the safety of persons or property or risk that the vessel may, by sinking or foundering in the harbour, prevent or seriously prejudice the use of the harbour by other vessels30. They must have regard to all the circumstances and to the safety of any person or vessel. Such directions may be over-ridden by the Secretary of State’s representative for maritime salvage and intervention who may issue contrary directions to the harbour master in the interests of safety."

Insured vessels of unblemished reputation, entering the port under their own power might reasonably be assumed to be of low risk. The Harbourmaster probably takes the view that a substantial boat, being recommissioned / refurbished, is another matter. When things go wrong nowadays the cry goes up "who is to blame!" , so people are understandably very wary of putting themselves at risk.

.

 

[elioti75]

Did the insurance company want a survey?
Harbour Authorities usually insist on insurance, but never heard of one insisting on a survey

Hi, I can get third party insurance with wreck recovery without a survey. I'll get comprehensive insurance when the boats interior nearly finished. It's just the harbour authority that are insisting on a survey ?. It's only going to be berthed on the pontoon while I work on her. I'm aware there are other vessels within the harbour in a poor condition, yet no survey requested. In my opinion it's similar to an authority asking one driver for an MOT, but saying to the others, you needn't bother, it's wrong in my opinion and believe authorities have to treat everyone fairly?. Would the RYA possibly advise me on the issue I wonder?

 

[colhel]

If it were me I'd get a survey that satisfies the insurance company and the Harbour Authority. I don't know the criteria for steel boats but an insurance survey should last a few years and the right surveyor could pick up on a few things and offer useful advice (not suggesting you need it?).
I've only been to Salcombe once but got the impression it's quite unique.

 

[elioti75]

If it were me I'd get a survey that satisfies the insurance company and the Harbour Authority. I don't know the criteria for steel boats but an insurance survey should last a few years and the right surveyor could pick up on a few things and offer useful advice (not suggesting you need it?).
I've only been to Salcombe once but got the impression it's quite unique.

It's definitely unique?. Yes true, guess not a bad thing, it's just transportation, craning , survey, it's adding up. Having to take time off work to get the boat done so money often a little tight. Sometimes wonder why I do it but guess it keeps me busy ?

 

[Seastoke]

Well you said its on the hard so no craning or transport for the survey , just get on with it and think your self lucky you are in a beautiful place.

 

[elioti75]

Hmmm, maybe you're right?.

 

[Sandyshore]

Engaging a surveyor who can vouch now that vessel is fit to be on a mooring and then get him to offer any advice for the internal work a
later date internal report.
As for the pen pushers if you were hit and sunk by a third party who then ran away then correct if the insurance policy covers for salvage and wreck removal you could claim on your own policy to lift your vessel.
As you had not been negligent then the pen pushers would not be able to claim against your policy but that of the culprit.
You cannot be responsible for the action of others.
Take a worse case picture uninsured vessel hits and sinks your craft and perhaps others and then sinks itself costs down to owner or his/her assets to cough up.
You would hope in first instance own insurers would pay for your loss and then look to recover against the guilty party.
Salvage costs ordinarily I believe insured under the third party section of an insurance policy £5,000,000 is looked at as the norm unless limited under any salvage condition.

 

[DavidJ]

I had a survey done last year because of an insurance requirement
I‘m looking to change my insurance company and have found that some have a rigorous survey check list, some just ask for a survey
This may be useful for you

Survey Requirements
Underwriters require that the survey report has been carried out within the last five years and must include (as a minimum) an evaluation of the following points where appropriate:
1. The condition of the hull beneath the waterline and topsides. Any sign of impact, distortion or any form of flexing, or signs of delamination. If moisture readings are taken is there any significant water ingress into the laminate. If the hull is steel or aluminium, hull thickness measurements will be required.
2. The condition of the internal hull, bulkheads, stiffeners, keel attachment and support structure.
3. The condition of the keel and external keel join.
4. The condition of the rudder, stern gear including the shaft and stern gland/shaft seal ,
supports struts such as the p-bracket and cutlass bearing and propellers.
5. The condition of decks, superstructure and deck fittings.
6. The condition of the mast and spars and age and condition of the standing rigging including
bottle screws and hull attachments (chain plates, stem head fitting, etc.).
7. Suitability and condition of ground tackle (number and weight of anchors, chain and warp
and attachments).
8. Condition of the steering equipment. If wheel steering, is the mechanism (including
quadrant, cables, hydraulics) in good condition. Is there an emergency tiller or other
emergency steering arrangement available?
9. Can the vessel be secured against theft, ie do the main access hatches have locks.
10. The gas (LPG) installation conforms to current safety standards (the report should confirm
that gas bottles are secured in a dedicated gas tight locker that drains directly to atmosphere and that the pipework is of solid drawn copper and well supported/secured along its length, approved type flexible hoses are within five years of the date stamp, gas cut off in appropriate position, cooker has flame failure devices, a gas alarm is installed).
11. The condition of the electrical installation including the condition and stowage of the batteries. If there is an (AC) shore power installation, is it protected by a residual current device?
12. The condition of the engine installation and fuel supply.
13. The condition of the sea valves and through-hull fittings. Are the hose connections double
clipped with stainless steel clips.
14. Are the number and type of bilge pumps adequate for the vessel. How many are there, of
what type and are they in full working condition?
15. Is the firefighting equipment onboard adequate for the type of vessel. Are the
extinguishers in service date?
16. Are there adequate emergency flares on board?
Please do not hesitate to contact Pantaenius if any of the above is not clear or if you wish to discuss any aspect of the survey requirement.
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