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This is getting on my t1ts as much as Location etc. used to . . . the boats just get more expensive every week.

How about:

"Mr & Mrs X want a vessel capable of an Atlantic crossing. They have a budget of £20,000 and want to save a substantial part of this for upgrading and refitting the new boat"

(Not me, we've already got ours, but there must be a few dreamers who still buy YM . . . or are those full page glossy ads aimed at everyone except me?)

- Nick



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Couldn't agree with you more. Its nice to dream - but surely there is space for something more "down to earth" - articles like this (ie the boats being considered rather than the nature of the article itself) only goes to re-enforce the perception that all boat owners "are rolling in it". Pitching the potential "spend" to the same level as, say, a good car would perhaps put things back in touch with reality.

Personally, I feely that (from a magazine point of view) I am starting to fall "between" the cracks. Without a doubt Yachting World is totally over the top - but I get this for the pictures (sad eh?). Yaching Monthly used to be the magazine I read from cover to cover, but these days do not feel such a drive to do so. PBO, well also a good read from time to time, but I find it sometimes pitched at the wrong level, and not really aimed at me or my sailing interests.

Perhaps I'm a snob .. its quite possible.

Just my opinion.

Regards, Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://users.swing.be/FDB/centurion/index2.html>Centurion 32 Web site</A>
 
Could we not have the YM of the Des era - complete with the kind of testing procedures described by Andrew Bray in Des's obituary article ? Fewer reviews of new AWB and no tips on fashionable shades (as the last editor managed to introduce) ?

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is a sailor who now believes it will _always_ rain
 
Well unfortunately no boat review is likely to really tell the whole truth. Or at least will be very economical with it. They are simply too afraid of losing advertising revenue.
No what we need is a Jeremy Clarkson of the yachting world, tell it how it is and be damned if I upset anyone

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Re: Jeremey Clarkson

With a maritime version of The Stig thrashing the AWBs and plastic fantastics round the cans under full sail in 35 knots . . . while B-grade celebs vie for fastest round the course in the hack Oceanis 331 . . .

Are you sure we want this?

- Nick

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Re: Jeremey Clarkson

Okay granted not Jeremy Clarkson et al
But you know what I mean, I am sure

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Re: Jeremey Clarkson

So we are looking for a reputable/known sailing figure who can get his hands on all sorts of different boats for thorough (preferably long term or at least passage making) testing then write the truth about them.

Then we need somewhere to publish the results.

The second part is easy, but where is this Clarkson of the Coastline going to come from, who will give him the vessels and what is his motivation, as an operation of this nature is not likely to generate a lot of revenue!

I just thought YM could still attract the big bucks advertisers while pandering a bit more to those readers/subscribers who might not be in the market for a brand new top of the range 4x4 - readers who, even if they had the money , would rather spend some of it it on a refit and the rest on an extended cruise somewhere interesting.

- Nick



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Re: Jeremey Clarkson

You are correct of course! You will be lucky to get the sailing media to support this.
However don't forget when Clarkson started out he was in the same position and only a few years ago one of the major japanese car manufacturers banned him from their list of media types that get the early road tests. However his popularity seems to have kept him in employment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Clarkson fan, I do find the modern Top Gears too loud and in yer face. But if a car is worth slagging off then its no holes barred and this is what the car buying publc seem to want.
All I was suggesting really is that it would be refreshing to get honest boat reviews from magazines we buy.

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Not sure about this - see,s to me that they are fairly frank. I have just had a test ride on the new Southerly 35 RS, and on the way home bought a copy of YM. B**er me, but all the point of criticism I had picked up on in my own test were there in YM. JJ got it right!

Cant say whether this applies to the big budget avdvertisers like Benny, but I guess it wll.

In any case, I dont see they can do much but review AWBs since thats almost all that is being made new these days.



<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 
That is true, but as probably 95% of boat purchase is used I would welcome a second look, sailing today (sorry IPC) have this feature, not just a column but 4 to 5 pages on an older yacht. Stu's Sonsey Lass was featured a few months back.

This allows two things IMO. It brings the boats under test into the scope of normal people and is an excellent source for the voyeuristic in us to see what that boat is like inside.

I have just been given a YM subscription by my mommy for my birthday, I cancelled a few months back as I was fed up of what has been said earlier, but I have been missing the passage and harbour info.

I wrote a long rant at the beginning of the year concerning YM, I wonder if it was read by the magazine.

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"Well unfortunately no boat review is likely to really tell the whole truth. Or at least will be very economical with it. They are simply too afraid of losing advertising revenue"

I do wish forumites would stop posting this hoary, untrue old tale.

As ad manager of PBO for many years not once did I dare ask the editorial to amend a test or description of a product and plenty appeared which criticised advertised products.

Yes, advertisers did not always like the articles but many took it on the chin and made the effort to correct the products. It was surprising how many advertisers thanked the magazine for pointing out faults.

I did, however, on occasion cancel or suspend adverts for products which the editorial had found to be dangerous or just not up to the job. Most advertisers took the necessary action and their ads could appear again.

I cannot believe that IPC have changed their policy on this although I must admit that I can and will not comment on some other publishers.

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Well I wasn't sugesting a conspiracy, however I was once told by a columnist for a popular sailing magazine that no magazine would risk losing regular full page adverts from leading yacht buiders.
Hoary or not? Well I have my opinion

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I would like to suggest that the "columnist" was either talking out of the back of his head or freelancing for a disreputable publisher.

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Bob. I'd hope this was the case and any company worth its salt would be only too glad of feedback, whether positive or negative.

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Jimi, I can assure you that over many years, to the best of my knowledge Advertisement Managers had no influence over editorial content. That is apart from time to time bringing new products to the attention of the editorial for their consideration.

I cannot recall a single case where the editorial approached me with a suggestion that a company might be receptive to a pitch for their advertising. It might have made my job easier if they had but at the expense of editorial integrity.

My comments only apply to consumer magazines and not to trade papers which operate differently.

Bob

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I agree with the Webbed one in that the budgets these potential buyers have are all high and the boats they all seem to want need to be above 35ft in legth.
Am I the only one around here who still thinks that 30ft is a big boat and that £30K is still a lot of money to spend on a toy?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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http://www.whoi.edu/services/facilities/CLAYMORE/
 
Well, this thread has been pretty much hijacked now . . . it was originally about the types / prices of boats reviewed.

Now that we have got onto boat tests, however . . . I think the main complaint is that boat tests are all very bland and will go out of their way to say something nice about the locker linings and forward heads plumbing fittings even though the boat sails like an utter pig - with equal column inches being given to each area of concern and the piggishness being carefully couched in inoffensive language.

I have only ever seen one review in YM where a boat was very much damned with faint praise - a lightly built American design with CatA and an AVS of 110 deg if I remember correctly. As I said, it was damned with faint praise rather than condemned as a potential death trap for ocean use, but even so this was the most controversial boat review published in recent years. I think that says it all.

I agree that the odd gizmo or gadget or (more importantly) piece of safety equipment gets roundly roasted from time to time, but these guys don't take out full page ads.

Now, Mr and Mrs average don't get to sail a lot of boats, so they aren't really qualified to tell the difference - but the IPC guys who do the tests patently ARE. I can't believe there aren't some boats they get their hands on that they just LOVE to pieces and some others that are just pigs to sail. So why do we never hear this? It's always 'a very competent performance in the conditions . . . ' or 'turned in a respectable five and a half knots close hauled . . .' (The latter often in the case of a 38 or 42 footer in conditions when our 27ft Vega would have produced six knots).

I want to see more 'Sailed like a witch . . . ' or 'Glad we weren't setting out on a serious passage in these conditions, as the boat is patently not up to it'

Let's have a bit more passion in boat reviews and we might believe them more and stop niggling youse about keeping the advertisers happy.

Is this fair comment Bob? I bet you say no, or tell us that your legal department have to red pen everything before it gets published.

Finally, let me say that this isn't me having a go at IPC - we all enjoy the boat tests, and most of us probably get quite good at reading between the lines.

Doesn't have any bearing on my original post - can we have more reviews / tests /articles about smaller, cheaper, older boats please?

- Nick


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Not even a little bit.

But you are forgetting there are no boats outside the Solent and they all have to outdo each other down there. The yachts are just fashion accessories like their Chelsea tractors.

Could you imagine having a BenJenBav in last years colours, how September 10th would that be.....

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>Woof</font color=red>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk/P.html>Posting pictures tutor</A>
 
Couldnt have put it better myself Webbers and I apologise if the thread has been hijacked.
Bob kind of missed the point I think as an attack on the advetising department. And nobody ever suggested any collusion.
It is as you say the blandness and 'couched in inoffensive language'.

Re your original post, I agree totally can we have more reviews / tests /articles about smaller, cheaper, older boats please?


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Dunno if you saw the last "Top Gear". Clarkson eulogised about latest Golf. Later on in the show he boasted about sitting next to the MD of VW at dinner the previous night.
Any connection ?
Ken

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.canongrange.co.uk>Bed and Breakfast, cathedral Green Wells, Somerset Canon Grange</A>
 
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