Survey report in - what to do next?

[Wild Weasel]

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of buying a P46 (2006) in the Med. Checked out the boat and looked clean enough to make an offer pending full survey. Agreed price and had survey done.

I now received the survey report and there are quite a few things that need to be taken care of. Question now is how to approach broker/seller and make sure they fix the items needed to be fixed before the transaction (or back out). What is reasonably the responsibility of the owner and what is considered wear and tear that I need to take care of once the transaction completes?

From the report I compiled a list that IMO is the responsibility of the owner, but considering this is my first boat would appreciate some validation or pointers before I go back to the broker.

I've asked the same to the surveyor and he says that: "The boat must be repaired as much as for her safety and seaworthiness before the transfer. It is long way you must not have problem on the sea. Problems of the engine and propulsion system have to be solved. Safety equipments (fire and bilge equipments, life raft, life buoys, life jackets) must be on boat as ready for use. Who will pay for what will pay is negotiation between buyer and seller."

Doesn't help the broker has been utterly useless in the process.

The list I compiled is as follows:

- the propeller shaft bearings (this has been confirmed by the owner as their responsibility)
- water under teak panel in the cockpit?
- fore sidescuttle of the galley needs to be fixed so it can close
- saloon entrance door fixed so it can close comfortably?
- rust on the engines (this has been confirmed by the owner as their responsibility) (sand and paint)
- periodical renewal of oil and filters (never done)?
- fuses of one of the control units sits outside of the case (need to be put back)?
- engine anti-vibration rubbers (survey report says "Port engine, aft starboard anti-vibration mount was broken that a metal piece was welded instead. The other mountings of the engines were rusty, possibly the vibration rubbers were not in good condition.")?
- propellers (survey report says "The propellers were needed to be repaired. At the blades end, bending and missing parts were surveyed")?
- missing part at the aft of the starboard propeller shaft bracket?
- generator fuel quick closing valves (survey report says "The fuel system was checked and found satisfactory except generator fuel quick closing valves was not working.")?
- electrical problem bow trust system (bow trust could not be tested didn't work because electrical problem)?
- main bilge pump / bilge alarm?
- deck washing pump (survey report says "The valve of the system in chain locker was out of order that has to be renewed maybe also the pump.")?
- fire extinguishers at each cabin need to be inspected and certified?
- submersible pump in the gray water tank/bilge pump?
- water strainer a/c?
- generator fuel transfer pump (fuel transfer pump was not working properly)?
- generator starter battery has to be fixed with a case?
- cooker/stove (left stove not working)?
- life-raft inspection?

On the bilges report says "There was water at front bilge and it was not salty. There was water at the engine room bilge and starboard side was oily, bilge was dirty. There was water at the back bilge and was salty. Eventually, nothing was seemed abnormal as constructional but all bilges were dirty."

Any advice much appreciated before I get back to the broker.

WW

 

[crazy4557]

I would be very worried about buying a boat with this many issues so far away and your lack of experience but you have done the right thing by asking on here.
There's a couple of things like fire extinguishers/lift raft inspection that you would expect to sort yourself but I would be throwing this list back at the owner with a view to having it all put right. If they refuse then walk away or adjust your bid accordingly as some of these items are very expensive to replace. If they do put it right then have the surveyor revisit to check.
Sounds like it's been neglected and problems just left to accumulate and I don't understand why the boat hasn't been brought up to a saleable standard before going on the market.

 

[P4Paul]

yep, I agree, providing your contract allows, I would be handing the survey over to broker/owner and asking how they intend to proceed as the survey highlights enough concerns to retract from the deal.

 

[Jurgen]

With the others on this 1, if the seller fixes all of the issues then go ahead but personally I would be looking for a reason out.

Just out of interest was it the 1 in Italy for a very very competitive price?

 

[jrudge]

Looks like a long list. Remember that if the boat has been neglected then the surveyor will not find everything. The comment re filters suggests a lack of basic servicing.

Unless it is very cheap I would walk.

Getting stuff fixed at med rates will cost.

Thruster, props, engine mounts ( bodged ) , rusty engine ( why - salt water leak?) prop bracket.

Find another one

 

[henryf]

Reading through a list doesn't really answer the question you effectively asked your surveyor. Is it good or bad.

What is the boat actually like? Is it a good boat with a few issues some of which might be something & nothing or is it a bit more serious?

Take the props for instance. Are we talking pretty much what you would expect for a 2006 boat or are they knackered? Running your finger along the edge of most props would result in feeling roughness and dents but that's different to a chunk out of the prop.

The very nature of a survey means faults being looked for but it is important the surveyor puts everything in perspective. To just say what he has is far too general. You are not an expert, that's why you've paid the bloke money.

Ultimately you are in the driving seat here. You either say you want the stuff mending or else you get money off to cover the cost of doing the work yourself (so you know it's done properly). The vendor may argue that some of the items are so small as to not warrant a reduction in price if they think the boat would sell elsewhere. You are standing there now with the cash though, so how badly does the vendor want to see the boat sold ?

I would agree that some of the items hint at a neglected boat but we are just looking at a list.

As has been said already stuff like life jackets, life raft, fire extinguishers, flares, etc, etc are down to you. You have to decide what level of protection you want in place.

Henry

 

[jrudge]

I think Henry makes a very fair point. Call the surveyor and ask - so all in for a boat of this age what do you reckon? See what he says.

As Henry says we have not seen it.

My house survey condemned the place, but we did knock it down!

 

[Bandit]

Was the boat in the water when you saw it?

Do you have any service history?

Are you intending to keep the boat where she is now or undertake a reasonable length delivery trip to where you will keep her.

 

[rafiki_]

The main issues are the basic engine survey, and the broken engine mount. The surveyor questions whether the engine oil and filters have ever been changed. In an 8 year old boat this is astonishing. Coupled with the broken engine mounting, which by the sounds of it has been bodged, are for me, walk away items. You could get an oil analysis survey done on the current engine oil, you just take a sample from each engine, and send them away to a reputable laboratory. The bow thruster and generator sound like significNt problems, but can be fixed relatively easily, and are in the majority of the issues where you request that the current owner fixes them all, or you get a quote to fix, and take the cost off the purchase price. The ball is firmly in your court, but you should not progress until you resolve the key engine issues, oil, filters and mounting.

 

[sarabande]

Look carefully through the report for what the surveyor has excluded from his examination. e.g. "Internal inspection of fuel tanks was not possible owing to need to remove cabin furniture and fittings."

This may indicate additional unknown problems.

 

[volvopaul]

P46 are we taking Fairline phantom 46 or some other boat model, what engines are they?

 

[Wild Weasel]

No not in Italy. This one is in Turkey.

 

[Wild Weasel]

The boat was in the water when I saw it. I don't have a service history and indeed seems like the boat has been neglected somewhat. In fact surveyor mentioned there also was no owner's manual on board.

I'm not planning to keep the boat where it is. It is actually quite a way (1000 nm?) to where I want to keep the boat, but was planning to use the trip as a means to get to know the boat and how to handle (with a captain hire).

 

[Wild Weasel]

P46 are we taking Fairline phantom 46 or some other boat model, what engines are they?

Pershing 46. 2 x 800 MAN hp engines.

 

[Wild Weasel]

Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I now have a better understanding of what should be my next step. I will also ask the surveyor again for his opinion on the actual state of the boat. He also knows the price so he should be able to give some more advice. I will then send the report to the broker with the list of items that are for the seller and let them come back to me with a suggestion.

Also thanks for confirmation of having another survey done after everything is fixed to confirm everything has been fixed properly and is now in working order (should seller agree to fix all the issues).

 

[skipmac]

First comment, unless there were specific claims, guarantees or issues in the offer or contract the seller has no obligation to fix anything. A boat can be sold as is where is if that's what the seller wants to do.

On the other hand if the purchase agreement did not specifically exclude this option, the buyer can certainly request the seller fix any or all problems found in the survey or reduce the offer price to cover the cost of having this done. At that point the seller can accept, decline or counter.

I agree with several replies that suggest you try to get a feel for the overall condition of the boat. I would first look for any serious or difficult to repair structural problems and the condition of the engines. If those pass then generally all the rest are things that can be dealt with.

 

[Monique]

too many questions. i'd walk.

 

[Portofino]

They are a nice boat well built and will wear well.
It's a 50/50 in my book most is easy fix culmination of things that go .
How ever the rubber engine damper is a serious issue with MAN,s . See Barts thread .
1000 mile trip may wreck an engine if that part fails or was not properly fixed -replaced
Engine mounts and a bit of rust is cosmetic .
There surley will be a oil change ,just no paperwork ,even if it's skipped a year a fresh oil change + full service, all filter etc
Problem you have in Turkey I suspect will be trying to get a reliable and indipendant engine check / survey done without broker" influence " so to speak .
Are there any other Pershings or Itama 46 / 48 -plus many other Italien muscle open boats .?
when I was looking I asked for brokers to email paperwork and more detailed pic,s to save wasted trips .
There is plenty out there .

 

[BartW]

How ever the rubber engine damper is a serious issue with MAN,s . See Barts thread .

I think that the surveyor talks about the rubber mounting studs, (as in Jimmy the builders Thread),
not the vibration damper is in my engine problem thread.


to OP,
about the surveyors list,
many items we need to know more details / pictures / tests, to be able to know how serious they are,
some items can be very easy to cure, but some can be real worry-ing,
not enough info right now,

boat is quite far away, so organising repairs and maintenance could be a challenge,
so not something you want to organise yourselve, when you could get a big reduction on the price.

if the broker and owner want to rectfie the issues, I would put a deadline on that, and if not before the agreed date, that you can quit.
if not, you could get several successive promises and delay's, there are quite a few different interventions needed,
and miss the boat season, while stucked with that agreement.

in this siutuation, I would never put a deposit, (except for the paying the Surveyor)

quite a few boats of that flavour for sale in Italy, anything interesting ?

 

[Momac]

Amazing such a relatively young boat should appear to be be so neglected - but it happens.
How many engine hours has it run?

I think an engineers report on the engines would be in order.
From there you might make a schedule of work required with a cost for each item and reduce your offer accordingly. I don't think you can deduct the cost of an engine service but seems like service would be required sooner rather than later.
I would want to have the work done myself rather than trust it to the present owner who seems to have been reluctant to spend on maintenance.