Survey advice

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Andy Bav

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As you may have guessed I am close to finalising a deal to switch out of our Bavaria.

This is the first second hand boat we have bought so I think I am belt and bracing everything. Volvopaul has agreed to attend sea trial and look at engines, and I have a highly recommended surveyor looking at her on the 19th. Some kind forumites have also given me some pointers as regards their experiences as owners.

I would like to draw on your experience as regards surveys and if there is any etiquette as regards who is responsible / pays for what as regards findings etc - I am guessing it brings up a report and a number of negotiating points - but any experience good or bad would be highly appreciated...

The boat itself is a med specced boat in the U.K and is dealer stock so if we close the deal will truck her to SCM - which does negate the "3 month UK engine 'warranty'" which I had discounted anyway ...

Thanks in advance..


Andy
 
Andy Bav said:
As you may have guessed I am close to finalising a deal to switch out of our Bavaria.

This is the first second hand boat we have bought so I think I am belt and bracing everything. Volvopaul has agreed to attend sea trial and look at engines, and I have a highly recommended surveyor looking at her on the 19th. Some kind forumites have also given me some pointers as regards their experiences as owners.

I would like to draw on your experience as regards surveys and if there is any etiquette as regards who is responsible / pays for what as regards findings etc - I am guessing it brings up a report and a number of negotiating points - but any experience good or bad would be highly appreciated...

The boat itself is a med specced boat in the U.K and is dealer stock so if we close the deal will truck her to SCM - which does negate the "3 month UK engine 'warranty'" which I had discounted anyway ...

Thanks in advance..


Andy
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As it's a dealer stock boat they should pay to put right anything found .
I'd also advise you keep the boat in the Uk for 3 months to do some sea miles while it's in warranty then truck it to SCM.
I'll take a few pens and a thick notepad just in case .
 
The survey on my present boat revealed some defects .
The vendors didn't offer of carry out repairs , nor would I have wished them to do so.
I made a reduced offer but had to knock that back a bit in order to reach an agreement on price.
 
It depends whether you've signed a contract by the time you do the survey and sea trial, and if you have, it depends what the contract says. If you haven't, then it's down to usual negotiation.
 
Nick_H said:
It depends whether you've signed a contract by the time you do the survey and sea trial, and if you have, it depends what the contract says. If you haven't, then it's down to usual negotiation.
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Thanks. Holding deposit paid and contract says that 10% due within 7 days of Survey (satisfactory) which is then non-refundable as that signifies my intention to complete. So to my reading, I can pull out up to payment of 10% deposit...
 
I see now its a stock boat.
In that case the dealer will want to fix any defects.
You are presumably happy with the cosmetic condition of the boat.
 
As it is not new, then you need to discount any defects that can de attributed to fair wear and tear for its age, and any consumables. Anything that clearly does not work should be fixed.
 
Andy Bav said:
Thanks. Holding deposit paid and contract says that 10% due within 7 days of Survey (satisfactory) which is then non-refundable as that signifies my intention to complete. So to my reading, I can pull out up to payment of 10% deposit...
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That doesn't necessarily follow, a contract can require you to complete regardless of what you've already paid so you need to read all the wording, but the more restrictive contracts (which are normally pushed by the broker in my experience) usually require 10% before survey and sea trial, so you may well be right. If you are, then top marks to the dealer for using a contract that allows you to fully assess the boat before making a final decision.
 
Andy Bav said:
Thanks. Holding deposit paid and contract says that 10% due within 7 days of Survey (satisfactory) which is then non-refundable as that signifies my intention to complete. So to my reading, I can pull out up to payment of 10% deposit...
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound like a normal YDSA contract or ABYA contract , surely if defeats are found and you don't want the boat you can have your deposit refunded less any lift out charges or anything else related to expenses. I thought 10% was a holding deposit which is the norm to proceed to survey .
 
Only ever bought used boats! On my 3rd now. The very best T's & C's I have seen are Sunseekers brokerage standard. Quite excellent and although I'm very happy where I am, I'm disappointed I dont have the benefit of one of their boats. Surveying is a mixed bag. The scope of work for one surveyor is not necessarily the same as the next. For example, if you expect to be told about a dodgy dvd player in cabin 2, or the tv receiver in the saloon doesn't power up, or whether an a/c unit fails to work in heating mode, or the weather fax is incorrectly wired, or the black tank wont empty, the generator wont run for more than a minute, or the chart plotter wont get a gps fix, or the starbord battery bank is u/s, blah, blah then make anything like that a specific requirement. Otherwise its a hull tap-tap-tap pro-forma covering v.imp safety aspects and good for insurer's to pass comment upon, too but perhaps little more. Was the anchor dropped & recovered? Did the thruster work against the wind? I'd expect a dealer to fix any and all faults identified in a survey report but vary the contract to allow report writing time. I've never purchased a boat without fluid analysis engines and drives/gearboxes and that'll probably take longer than 7 days. Then take fresh samples end of year one, then you have a picture. I'd expect a walk-away or price trading point at least if non trivial works were identified by the report. Bon chance, quality is all!
 
volvopaul said:
That doesn't sound like a normal YDSA contract or ABYA contract , surely if defeats are found and you don't want the boat you can have your deposit refunded less any lift out charges or anything else related to expenses. I thought 10% was a holding deposit which is the norm to proceed to survey .
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Thanks. Possibly a different contract as a PX is involved and they are taking a risk on the our boat as well. 5K got it off thr market, and 10% is payable 7 days after survey, which as stated above does seem beneficial to me.
 
Cheers Tony. have got a number of pointers from current and previous owners of things to look out for so will make surveyor aware. Also seen a whole suite if documents of work done right down to Castorama receipts for shampoo, so previous owner seemed quite fastidious... And bought another Princess. No guarantee we aren't buying a lemon I know but a reasonable starting point to give us a modicum of comfort.
 
Chatting with the previous owner would likely be a few high value minutes. My most memorable defects are (i) factory fitted defects, many and various, surviving through original owner(s) and present in one form or another on each boat but surveyor-spotted on only one; (ii) a full black tank compounded with an in-op pump-out was the height of sellers insult. That particular topic ignored by all surveying experiences to date!
 
Interesting that many dealers appear to offer a 3 month warranty when, as I understand it, consumer law makes them liable for six months. Often wondered if by offering a 3 month warranty they are trying to appear to be doing a good deal whilst ducking their actual responsibilities. Just a thought :)
 
Greg2 said:
Interesting that many dealers appear to offer a 3 month warranty when, as I understand it, consumer law makes them liable for six months. Often wondered if by offering a 3 month warranty they are trying to appear to be doing a good deal whilst ducking their actual responsibilities. Just a thought :)
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Actually that's a good point as it comes with a "full 3 month UK engine warranty" which is why, as discussed earlier, keeping her in the UK for 3 months is a consideration. However in some discussions with the dealer they say "its U.K. Only" and yet in another there is talk of the lack of desire to put an engineer on a plane to rectify a fault. So you have raised a good point, to which I don't know the answer. One of the dealers solution - a one year engine warranty costing GBP1,900 .
 
Andy Bav said:
Actually that's a good point as it comes with a "full 3 month UK engine warranty" which is why, as discussed earlier, keeping her in the UK for 3 months is a consideration. However in some discussions with the dealer they say "its U.K. Only" and yet in another there is talk of the lack of desire to put an engineer on a plane to rectify a fault. So you have raised a good point, to which I don't know the answer. One of the dealers solution - a one year engine warranty costing GBP1,900 .
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When they say engines do they mean engines and drives? There is more scope in my opinion to have drive faults than engines which of course means having the boat lifted at there expense, as you have stated to them that you are taking the boat abroad and they are not covering it abroad obviously because they are funding there own warranty by using there own engineers and supply of parts that are required to make good at there own cost.
Princess Motor Yachts give a guardian scheme which is funded should the need for a claim arise from a proper insurance policy which has proper small print. I'd be insisting on a written wording of what is covered and how they would implement a claim, let's say for example you blow an engine up requiring a new one in excess of £25k.

2 years ago I was involved in a claim against a boatyard who had rebuilt an engine for it to fail requiring either it made good or good second hand unti sourced, this went on 3 years totalling over £50k in legal fees, at the 11th hour it was about to go to court, the company simply went on paper into liquidation on there boatyard side of the Marina business simply transferring the workshop to another company that was basically the mooring and chandlery side of the marina.

I was covered as I was being paid by the boat owners insurer but even the surveyor that was acting for the other side got shafted over his fees, this just shows me how ruthless and the lengths marine companies will go to to get out of paying.

I'd be ironing this one out way before purchase and sea trials as there 3 month warranty may be worth less than a roll of Andrex, on the other hand I've seen buyers never get there boat running right even with the warranty , buyer giving up and instructs his own engineer to make good, I'll discuss more when we meet.
 
Andy Bav said:
Thanks. Possibly a different contract as a PX is involved and they are taking a risk on the our boat as well. 5K got it off thr market, and 10% is payable 7 days after survey, which as stated above does seem beneficial to me.
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The risk they are taking on yours is just the same as buying a car from auction , there buying it from you at auction price which means they have a massive margin when they come to resale plus the margin they have in the V42, it's a no brainier for them otherwise they wouldn't be dealing with you.
 
Being a it simple here, but the "warranty" - once defined - has a price to a purchaser and a cost to the retailer.
If it is not being taken up then a sum amicably derived from the above gets removed from the deal price.
Too easy??
 
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