Sunseeker manhattan 50

Sunseeker will show the hull number ending on year of build and model year / delivery.

Sounds like your friends boat would of ended in 506. Built on 2005 but a 2006 model delivered new in 2006. I too would call that a 2006 boat.

As it happens I have two sunseekers, in my minds both from 2008. One is 708 as it started build in 2007 and was delivered new in 2008 and the other is 808 which went into build in early 2008 an delivered late in the year 2008. In my mind they are both 2008 boats.

Same as someone who has a car registered in jan of 2012 they would advertise it as a 2012 car. When was the last time you saw a car advertised as the year it was built?

Generally the warranties kick in from delivery date which is another reason to advertise it as 06
I completely agree MRC. Boats should be described by model year (the last 2 digits) not build year. I always do this - the boat I just sold was described by me as "2011" becuase it was a 2011 model year, 11 last 2 digits of HIN, 2011 spec, built during the period May 2010 to January 2011
 
Doug, thanks for your input, it seems to me you have a vested interest in the company layout of sun seeker and your honest enough to share it with us. It's a real pity for sun seekers after sales figures that they don't to the general, honest potential buyers of there stock boat.
Why hide behind another company and portray to my friend who was going to spend half a million with them, then give him grief both by trying to sell him a real lemon, then hold his cash,mthere certainly getting some good feedback on here, just right in time for Southampton boatshow, isn't life just great.


Out of interest which is your boat in calador, as I had numerous walks around this week and viewed a couple of boats there too.

Absolutely no vested interest in any Sunseeker Company Paul.

I just consider that when Mr Braithwaite, the then majority owner of Sunseeker International Ltd stepped in and picked up the tab when one of his distributors went belly up that he should be applauded and not castigated.

Not one customer lost a penny and it cost Sunseeker International Ltd between 5 - 6 million.

I do not know the details of what went on but as you can imagine that as I was about to take delivery of a 1.3 million pound boat I was most concerned.

There was no problems at all.

The hand over was first class and as I was taking the boat to the Med and the dealer from whom I ordered the boat had gone belly up, Mt Braithwaitte said that Sunseeker Poole was responsible for any warranty or problems until we reached France and that Sunseeker France was then responsible until we reached Spain and the Spanish Dealer took over.

Of course it is the factory (Sunseeker International Ltd) who offer the warranty and the dealers who carry out the work on their behalf.

I read comments on this forum about the problems with Sunseeker products and do wonder if the people who post such comments are talking about the same boats as mine.

I am delighted with my vessel and all the help and assistance I have received and continue to receive from the agents.

Most of Sunseekers problems appear to be with the Black and Dark Blue gel colours they have offered which do not seem to be able to withstand the high Med temperatures and sun.

Sunseeker have always tried to offer the customer exactly what they wanted and it is this endeavour to please the client that maybe is the problem.

Like every thing in this life it is important to ensure you know who you are dealing with and not get too excited at the time of purchase.

Sunseeker International Ltd and their Dealers/Distributors/Brokers are completely separate organisations.

I would be surprised if it was Sunseeker London or Sunseeker Poole that was offering a defective boat as they are part of a highly reputable organisation.

There is also the possibility that the boat was being offered very cheaply on a 'as seen and approved basis'. I sell our old lorry's on this basis and find that when we are dealing with a trade buyer there are no problems, but when Joe public wants one of the lorry's he expects a perfect vehicle and a rock bottom price.

Remember the old adage, There are Good vehicles and Cheap vehicles but not any Good Cheap vehicles.

When I see how some owners treat their boats and turn them into pigsties in a very short space of time I'm not surprised to see such 'Dogs" in the marinas offered for sale.

I would buy a jfm boat from John without any concern as I know he loves his boats and cares for them like his children. He also can afford to lavish such attention which is not always the case with other owners.

Apologies for such a long ramble.

My boat is called 'Acuarela' which is Andalucian Spanish for 'Watercolours"
 
Absolutely no vested interest in any Sunseeker Company Paul.

I just consider that when Mr Braithwaite, the then majority owner of Sunseeker International Ltd stepped in and picked up the tab when one of his distributors went belly up that he should be applauded and not castigated.

Not one customer lost a penny and it cost Sunseeker International Ltd between 5 - 6 million.

I do not know the details of what went on but as you can imagine that as I was about to take delivery of a 1.3 million pound boat I was most concerned.

There was no problems at all.

The hand over was first class and as I was taking the boat to the Med and the dealer from whom I ordered the boat had gone belly up, Mt Braithwaitte said that Sunseeker Poole was responsible for any warranty or problems until we reached France and that Sunseeker France was then responsible until we reached Spain and the Spanish Dealer took over.

Of course it is the factory (Sunseeker International Ltd) who offer the warranty and the dealers who carry out the work on their behalf.

I read comments on this forum about the problems with Sunseeker products and do wonder if the people who post such comments are talking about the same boats as mine.

I am delighted with my vessel and all the help and assistance I have received and continue to receive from the agents.

Most of Sunseekers problems appear to be with the Black and Dark Blue gel colours they have offered which do not seem to be able to withstand the high Med temperatures and sun.

Sunseeker have always tried to offer the customer exactly what they wanted and it is this endeavour to please the client that maybe is the problem.

Like every thing in this life it is important to ensure you know who you are dealing with and not get too excited at the time of purchase.

Sunseeker International Ltd and their Dealers/Distributors/Brokers are completely separate organisations.

I would be surprised if it was Sunseeker London or Sunseeker Poole that was offering a defective boat as they are part of a highly reputable organisation.

There is also the possibility that the boat was being offered very cheaply on a 'as seen and approved basis'. I sell our old lorry's on this basis and find that when we are dealing with a trade buyer there are no problems, but when Joe public wants one of the lorry's he expects a perfect vehicle and a rock bottom price.

Remember the old adage, There are Good vehicles and Cheap vehicles but not any Good Cheap vehicles.

When I see how some owners treat their boats and turn them into pigsties in a very short space of time I'm not surprised to see such 'Dogs" in the marinas offered for sale.

I would buy a jfm boat from John without any concern as I know he loves his boats and cares for them like his children. He also can afford to lavish such attention which is not always the case with other owners.

Apologies for such a long ramble.

My boat is called 'Acuarela' which is Andalucian Spanish for 'Watercolours"

Hi doug, thank you for such a detailed reply, my friend was led to believe he was buying direct, the boat looked good at the outset, but soon the cracks appeared when the surveyor did his job, it then turned sour, anyway that was a while ago. His wife loved the boat as she wanted a mid cabin but they didn't want to go much bigger than the phantom they had.

After the survey I was surprised the said boat was not just placed in the trade instead of being retailed, but we all learn.

I didn't see your boat , I think you said your son was using it in august.

Thanks again for your input, I'd say it's been put to bed now.
 
Same as someone who has a car registered in jan of 2012 they would advertise it as a 2012 car. When was the last time you saw a car advertised as the year it was built?
Year of manufacture is widely used in industry to describe the age of equipment despite the fact that warranties usually start on date of first use and I don't see why boats should be any different. The date that the CE certificate was signed by the manufacturer is usually assumed to be the precise date that the equipment completed the manufacturing process and is also the date used to determine the particular standards and regulations that apply to that equipment. To describe a boat, the manufacture of which was completed on some date in 2005 and who's CE certificate is dated 2005, as a 2006 boat or a 2006 model year boat is just bunkum
 
Year of manufacture is widely used in industry to describe the age of equipment despite the fact that warranties usually start on date of first use and I don't see why boats should be any different. The date that the CE certificate was signed by the manufacturer is usually assumed to be the precise date that the equipment completed the manufacturing process and is also the date used to determine the particular standards and regulations that apply to that equipment. To describe a boat, the manufacture of which was completed on some date in 2005 and who's CE certificate is dated 2005, as a 2006 boat or a 2006 model year boat is just bunkum
My new boat starts build August 2012, finishes Feb 2013. "Plated" as 2013 and 2013/m/year spec. How shall I describe it when I sell it?

Remember, for boats over 60 foot, more than half straddle a year end during the build
 
After the sale was withdrawn sunseeker re advertised the boat as 2005 boat and reduced the price by 50k, why didnt they carry out the faults and keep the sale?
 
My new boat starts build August 2012, finishes Feb 2013. "Plated" as 2013 and 2013/m/year spec. How shall I describe it when I sell it?

Remember, for boats over 60 foot, more than half straddle a year end during the build
2013 obviously as 2013 will be the year in which the manufacturing process is completed and the CE certificate signed. If the boat was completed and plated in 2012 but not launched until 2013, then it's a 2012 boat IMHO, whatever the HIN no is
I had this issue with my current boat which was described in the broker's sales details as a particular year but when I inspected the boat, all the documents were dated for the previous year. The broker tried to blag his way out of this by quoting HIN nos and launch dates but I nearly walked away from the deal
 
2013 obviously as 2013 will be the year in which the manufacturing process is completed and the CE certificate signed. If the boat was completed and plated in 2012 but not launched until 2013, then it's a 2012 boat IMHO, whatever the HIN no is
I had this issue with my current boat which was described in the broker's sales details as a particular year but when I inspected the boat, all the documents were dated for the previous year. The broker tried to blag his way out of this by quoting HIN nos and launch dates but I nearly walked away from the deal

I think you're being unlrealistic as to how larger boats are built. If your definition prevailed and i had a new large boat being finished in november 2012 (say), I'd just call the builder and ask them not to screw the last cupboard door on and date all the papers January. Then, by your definition it would be 2013, hurrah! That would be ridiculous. I will always advertise my boats by model year, eg I just sold my last boat as a "2011" even though it was launched and mostly finished mid December 2010, though actually the last cupboard door was indeed attached in January 2011. Life is much simpler in the market if we describe boats based on their HIN number year (= model year) as MRC first suggested above
 
I'd just call the builder and ask them not to screw the last cupboard door on and date all the papers January. Then, by your definition it would be 2013, hurrah! That would be ridiculous.
Thats exactly what I would do in the same way as you wouldn't take delivery of a new car in December but wait until 1st January. Actually I wouldn't care a damn about when the last cupboard door was screwed on but I'd make sure all the documents were dated Jan
 
Thats exactly what I would do in the same way as you wouldn't take delivery of a new car in December but wait until 1st January. Actually I wouldn't care a damn about when the last cupboard door was screwed on but I'd make sure all the documents were dated Jan
The comparison doesn't hold water, imho.
Automotive industry follows very strict standards, and you'll always be able to tell the "real" MY of a car regardless of the date of delivery and its papers.
Then again, if you mean that for future resale value it's actually the first delivery date which matters more, you might well be correct, but that's just a convention - as it is looking at the MY with boats.
In fact, the MY shown by the last two HIN digits, in the cottage industry which is boatbuilding, means close to nothing.
And even the 3rd and 4th from last digits, which should tell when the hull was moulded (in jfm example, "H2", with "13" as MY), actually aren't so strictly enforced, hence each builder "interprets" them, so to speak.
For instance, if jfm hull would be moulded in Jul rather than Aug, in theory the boat should be plated as "G212", but in practice I bet it would be a "G213" anyway...
We already debated the subject at length in this thread.
 
each builder "interprets" them, so to speak.
For instance, if jfm hull would be moulded in Jul rather than Aug, in theory the boat should be plated as "G212", but in practice I bet it would be a "G213" anyway...

FYI MapisM, i think the brit builders (not just Fairline) (and maybe other builders in other countries?) now do not use the "hull moulded" month. For a start, a sq78 hull takes 5-6 weeks in the mould so can straddle 2 or 3 separate months. They now use the anticipated finish date as the 3rd and 4th last digits in the HIN so i think my new boat will by A or B 313 even though the hull is in the mould Sept and Oct 2012. My last boat was L011, L = December, and the boat was moulded in about May or June
 
LOL, see? Did I talk of interpretation...? :D

Just think of all the details which can be reliably traced based on a car VIN, and boats' HIN becomes laughable in comparison.
Not to mention the traceability of single components.
On your new boat, you could well have shafts (just to make one example) built 10 years ago and forgotten in some warehouse, or even recovered from a sunk boat, and you would never know.
Not because she's a FL Sq78, of course. That applies to each and every boat.
 
The comparison doesn't hold water, imho.
Automotive industry follows very strict standards, and you'll always be able to tell the "real" MY of a car regardless of the date of delivery and its papers.
Then again, if you mean that for future resale value it's actually the first delivery date which matters more, you might well be correct, but that's just a convention - as it is looking at the MY with boats.
I.
I don't know what its like in Italy but in the UK, if you take delivery of a car on 31st Dec 2012, its a 2012 car but if you take delivery on 1st Jan 2013, it's a 2013 car. Its whatever the date is given on the registration document as the date of first registration. Similarly, when I look at a used boat, I don't care about the model year, I don't care when it was launched, I always check the date of the signature on the CE (HIN) certificate and that decides what year that boat is as far as I'm concerned. Brokers can try and nuance the situation by quoting model years or launch dates but it's of little interest to me as a used boat buyer
 
I don't know what its like in Italy but in the UK, if you take delivery of a car on 31st Dec 2012, its a 2012 car but if you take delivery on 1st Jan 2013, it's a 2013 car
Accepted, but as I said, that's merely a convention.
You could well take delivery of a 2011 car on Jan 2013 (also in the UK), but you wouldn't stand one single chance to convince me (or anyone who knows how to decode a VIN) that it's a 2013 car.
 
Not to mention the traceability of single components.
I don't know that that's true at all. From my Cat engine serial nos, I know the year of manufacture of those engines, the date they were delivered to Ferretti and whether any warranty work was carried out on them. Try finding out when the engine in your car was manufactured and when it was delivered to the assembly plant. Similarly, there are other components on boats, the provenance of which you can trace via the manufacturer from the serial nos on the components concerned. True you don't know when your shafts were manufactured (any more than you know when the propshaft on your car was manufactured) but for many other things you can find that out. The reason for that of course is that a boat is just a collection of proprietary components from different manufacturers, many of whom will keep records.
Anyway, it has been known for car manufacturers to change VIN plates if they've have had stock hanging around too long
 
Anyway, it has been known for car manufacturers to change VIN plates if they've have had stock hanging around too long
Really? Of course I can't tell for sure that this is BS, but it very much sounds like it.
And not just because that would be a fraud, but because it would be fairly easy to spot it. In cars, you can tell the month and year of manufacturing of almost every component.
Engines? You must be joking when you say that the delivery date to the factory can't be traced. Car makers know the DAY it reached the plant, as well as the DAY it was installed in your car.
That's not part of the details which everybody can trace based on each VIN, of course, but that's another matter altogether.
 
Engines? You must be joking when you say that the delivery date to the factory can't be traced. Car makers know the DAY it reached the plant, as well as the DAY it was installed in your car.
That's not part of the details which everybody can trace based on each VIN, of course, but that's another matter altogether.
I don't know whether you deliberately misunderstand me or what but of course car manufacturers know the precise date that every component was manufactured, delivered and fitted. That will be part of their quality control system. But the point is that, you, the buyer, won't know any of that.
There were rumours in the UK that back in 2008/9/10, car manufacturers were stuck with a load of unsold stock following the credit crunch and that some manufacturers replated some of their stock after it had lain around for a couple of years. All hearsay of course
 
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