Suitability of a 58 hatteras long range cruiser in the med

[Zkaliman]

Wise decision per se, but VERY wise when compared to a steel boat with no airco!
Just curious, what SL model are you talking about? In all the ones I can think of, the dinghy is stored on the flybridge.

The 57 there someone here that says their ideal boat is the 62 San Lorenzo

 

[Zkaliman]

Th

SL 57 is THE go to fly bridge live aboard/ extended occupancy Med boat at that size range , price point .
Or a 62 early version you might scrape under your budget .

That Dutch thing is useless.
-Steel maintenance.
-No AC
- To much glazing

Here typical example Sanlorenzo 57 Fly, 150.000 € | iNautia.com

Leaves you with a big war chest to fettle it ,

PORTOFINO that’s exactly the boat I’m looking at. So everyone STAY AWAY. Lol !!!! No calls. Lol !!! Please.

 

[Zkaliman]

I was once told that when you are buying a boat - what you are actually doing is buying 2 engines and they happen to come with a boat . Which means that the engines are actually the most important . An advice I try to follow - since it seems like u also pay attention to the engines - the boat I’m looking at has :
An
Engine Model
Man-820
Total Power
820hp
Engine Hours
1600 what do u think about those ?

 

[Zkaliman]

Yeah

If westernman doesn't mind dealing with wood maintenance, for a top living aboard experience I think that at the moment he would struggle to find anything better than this Maiora.
In fact, at that age/size, Maiora used to build as well if not even better than SLs.
The way the boat was maintained becomes the crucial point, and as I was told this boat is spectacular in this respect.
Not to mention that she's in Sardinia, so conveniently placed in a cruising area which is second to none...

Yeah I looked at arríeta

 

[Zkaliman]

Oh yes the 62 s stern is more user friendly, steps down and even the run out modal has a flip up / down bathing platform .

I actually like the older ladder down 57 version as we have a ladder anyhow and it’s nice to climb down and up to the sea .
Good for the ham strings . .

Also the DD s in the older have a alluring appeal can’t quite put my finger on that one .
A different type of boat and would need a different usage pattern from my current .
C pose you just chug along @18 knots , or spend all day @10 ( D speed ) and an last hr at 22 knots or something?? To blow the soot out ?
Higher hrs running less @ anchor / marinas something like that .
But for extended periods semi living , accommodation wise and low ownership costs these older SL s been good .

The saving from a 62 to a 57 would be blown on fuel and berthing , talking 100 s of € K difference.
Infact you could buy 2x 57 s for the price of a better newer 62 .Or the same boats 1/2 price .

Hey portofino , great advice , but I’ve had a couple of beers - couldn’t quite follow - sorry - what did u mean ? In school I was always kind of slow. Lol.

The saving from a 62 to a 57 would be blown on fuel and berthing , talking 100 s of € K difference.
Infact you could buy 2x 57 s for the price of a better newer 62 .Or the same boats 1/2 price .

 

[Zkaliman]

Doh! Yeah, it must be the 57.
I often forget her because I prefer the 62 which replaced her, in several ways.
Engines being the main one, since the 57 came either with DD or MAN V10 engines, and I'm not a fan of both.
The 62 came with the MAN V12 instead, which are imho better - and btw, as I was told, the difference in fuel burn is not much.
But there are also other reasons why I'd try to stretch the budget to a 62, if possible.

 

[Portofino]

Hey portofino , great advice , but I’ve had a couple of beers - couldn’t quite follow - sorry - what did u mean ? In school I was always kind of slow. Lol.

The saving from a 62 to a 57 would be blown on fuel and berthing , talking 100 s of € K difference.
Infact you could buy 2x 57 s for the price of a better newer 62 .Or the same boats 1/2 price .

Yep sorry I often go too fast on here .

Well a buy in of €150 K .For a 57 ( more less same hull as the 62 ) as opposed to€300 + K for a mk1 62 or the €500 K for the mk2 62 means using the €300 k example you have €150 K to spend on planing speed fuel consumption and interesting location marina berths around the med .Eg 4 months in Corfu , 3 in Sicily. Winter in Naples .Etc etc .Short rates cost more .You will have bigger reserve of € my ‘ war chest “ to fettle it and give it full cruise speed if you want without braking your bank .

 

[Portofino]

I was once told that when you are buying a boat - what you are actually doing is buying 2 engines and they happen to come with a boat . Which means that the engines are actually the most important . An advice I try to follow - since it seems like u also pay attention to the engines - the boat I’m looking at has :
An
Engine Model
Man-820
Total Power
820hp
Engine Hours
1600 what do u think about those ?

Right .The simple golden rule for longevity or turned around less hassle / breakdowns / repairs / pumping cash into engines is do not overload them .
This is irrespective of the marque .
MAN s are great motors well engineered via a Germanic thought process .

Personally I never run mine above 1800;rpm don’t need to .

See here if 1700- to 1800 gives enough speed planning 20-22 knots then that’s it .
They will run for years with basic annual maintenance.
1600:hr s is nothing .

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/802410-man-v-10-820-hp-engines.html

 

[Zkaliman]

Late to this discussion but my 2 pence worth is--
1- Arietta the Hatteras lives a few boats down from my boat on Mole Sud Antibes - but don`t know where when the berth leases revert back to the marina next month! A 20 yr lease there will be the thick end of a million euro but I think its the best base in the Med (cue raging alternate views..)- one can rent annually etc. It was used as a liveaboard by an old chap who sadly passed away circa 18 months or so ago ish. For several years It NEVER had its engines run or went to sea- I think it might have been taken to yard every couple of years by tug for antifoul etc not sure -- so suspect (I only say suspect) major engine room work to replace batteries and much else to get it going.
I think displacement speed boats great for Med and only ever do 10 knots myself.
2- personally wouldn`t have a wooden boat or one without sidedecks (or obviously aircon but that can be fitted).
3- You need to understand the crazy Med prices for Marina/ all things boatyard and maintenance.
4- good luck Zkaliman with your med adventure you will love a 10 hr chug over to Corsica seeing whales etc on the way and you will love Corsica/ Sardinia etc etc even more.

Hola silverdee yes thanx for insight - yes I visited arrieta - did a cold start - was smoky and then noticed oily filmy sheen on water - lottsa lottsa deferred maintenance - the fire extinguisher system does not work - so would be difficult to see what country would accept that boat to flag in that condition - at the moment without up to date current fire extinguisher system - they are not even allowed by their insurance to take it out for for real sea trial - I think they can only do limited motoring for the sea trial and they have to have a lot of hand held extinguishers throughout just to do that - on the docks also heard it had Hull blistering problem - such a shame they don’t want to put some money into it - at least update the fire system up to modern specs -they had a Cuban guy work on the boat and I wanted to speak with him - but they said they couldn’t locate him - ? In this day and age can’t locate a well known Cuban mechanic from Antibes ? I wanted to see if they used quality parts and adhesives used for what they replaced . Also no dinghy - the crane to put dinghy in water is completely fallen apart with no motor - and still the owners act like they have a jewel on their hands - not in the condition it’s in and not in this climate where you can’t get parts for anything because many factories are closed down and not producing parts- they’ve reduced price but even at that price it’s way over. Finally the vat on that boat is problematic - it’s not super clear to prove that it’s vat paid or vat exempt- so any buyer is risking if cruising with that boat to be told that they don’t accept the vat paperwork - and the way governments needs tax money - u will be in a jam to get out. Anyway.

 

[prinex]

yes I visited arrieta

Well you saved myself some time, I wanted to drive to Antibes to have a look at Arietta... btw they cannot take it out probably because they dont have a valid safety certificate, that is a Revision company comes out and makes you a mile long list of all things that are not ok and until you fix it no boating. They probably did that and this is the reason they want to sell.

Speaking of Sanlorenzo there is one in Trapani, Sicily here Given For Yachting - Sanlorenzo SL 57 be aware the boat was stationed in Tunisi for a long time, so not sure if EU papers all still OK or VAT was paid etc. It was on the market for many years.

I kept a list of Sanlorenzo 62 for sale (older models) which I made in March/April, the "cheap" ones (250K Euro) they all are gone, in fact I dont think there is one for sale around. The newer models (still 15 y/o boats) run around 500K Euro.

It has been discussed to death but this is just demand / supply, last years few new boats, now Covid bringing tons a customer in the market, and so on. Also lots of people that bough in Feb/mar are already selling after adding 30% to their purchase price which does not help.

SL 57 sale history that Im aware of - the one here in Sanremo went for 90K, another one in La Spezia for 130K (but it was already in the prices-craze).

If you want to put-put around there is this one DEFEVER 50 Motor Yacht – Due Porti is asking 399K Euro for some years now.

Changing Flag could prove impossible for some boats, mainly due to the emission laws etc - not sure I can import in EU a 2 stroke diesel engine boats for example.

 

[prinex]

This is the Sanlorenzo list btw, you can have fun clicking around (sorry for the German remarks..)

http://www.elitairemarine.ch/portfolio/sanlorenzo-62-carachiara/ 1996 330.000
All Power Boats | boat24.com/en 1999 249.000 in Mallorca
Sanlorenzo Sl 62 (1996) 1996 240.000 in Lazio
Sanlorenzo SL 62, 370.000 € | iNautia.com 1995 in Toscana
1995 61' 8" SANLORENZO in Montecarlo Monaco (270182) | Royal Yacht International 280.000 in Monaco, war 240.000 vor dem Sommer !! und bei 27.09.21 schon wieder verschwunden
SL57
SAN LORENZO 57 FLY 1988 - Studio Due Nautica - Vendita Imbarcazioni - 57 FLY SAN LORENZO1988 1998 150.000
SAN LORENZO 57 - 1991 250.000
SANLORENZO 57” fly 1995 | Bocca di Magra - Marco Yacht srl 1995 185.000
https://www.buggemiyacht.it/prodotto/sanlorenzo-sl-57/ 1993 155.000 SOLD
https://it.boats.com/barche-a-motore/1991-sanlorenzo-57-7479460/ 1991 120.000
https://www.siroco-nautica.pt/en/san-lorenzo-57/
https://www.boatoon.com/en/marketplace/san-lorenzo-57-6111356587.html#boat-details 1990 169.000

 

[Zkaliman]

H

Doh! Yeah, it must be the 57.
I often forget her because I prefer the 62 which replaced her, in several ways.
Engines being the main one, since the 57 came either with DD or MAN V10 engines, and I'm not a fan of both.
The 62 came with the MAN V12 instead, which are imho better - and btw, as I was told, the difference in fuel burn is not much.
But there are also other reasons why I'd try to stretch the budget to a 62, if possible.

Hey

Doh! Yeah, it must be the 57.
I often forget her because I prefer the 62 which replaced her, in several ways.
Engines being the main one, since the 57 came either with DD or MAN V10 engines, and I'm not a fan of both.
The 62 came with the MAN V12 instead, which are imho better - and btw, as I was told, the difference in fuel burn is not much.
But there are also other reasons why I'd try to stretch the budget to a 62, if possible.

hey mapism what don’t u like about the man v10 820 hp enginez. ? The little that I was able to find said good things. Thanx

 

[BartW]

Hi, I'm late to this,
re the duch boat idea,
If its one of those steel boats,, aimed at duch inland waters, you better ignore that for med / open sea use,
the hulls are not adressed at that useage,
and steel; I was told that inside those are not up to sea vapor use, meaning, when over 10yo rust inside is un stop able.
a friend who owns such a boat and was with her in the med told me...

however, that SL idea, would love to see a SL owner on here
I have a soft spot for those characterfull Italian FB's ao SanLorenzo , Alalunga, Maiora, Canados, ...
those brands were mainly producing >70ft, only a few <60ft models,

at the time, I have been looking at hatteras myself, but compared to the brands above; I don't like the inside style,
much more old fashion, and utilitarian, but I apreciate that some ppl like that.
contrary the Italian boats mentioned above are "superyacht finish inside",

re engines, in that size you will end with either VP D12..D13, MAN or Cat engines,
each has its pro's and cons, but none is really bad,
(I would ignore a boat with older DD 2stroke diesel engines)
the most important thing about the engines, is finding out if they have been well maintained / service history, AND
if there have not been serious problems (this is more diffficult to find out)

Interesting times !
good luck with your search !

 

[MapisM]

hey mapism what don’t u like about the man v10 820 hp enginez. ?
The little that I was able to find said good things. Thanx

In fairness, there isn's so much not to like about the 820hp version of the V10.
It was the very last 100% mechanical development of the V10, after which they introduced the semi-electronic 1050 and the fully electronic common rail 1100, before phasing out the V10 block altogether.
So being mechanical, they can't suffer any electronic malarky and, and are easy to fix for any half decent engine shop.
In fact, if I should pick a V10 powered boat, I'd definitely stick to the 820, because the power added in the last two developments came at the expense of reliability.
But in all the V10s I came across (i.e., a few 820, two 1050 and one 1100, unless I'm forgetting some), I always found them at least as rough as the V8s if not even worse, and nowhere near the V12 smoothness, particularly at idle and low(ish) rpm.
I think it's no coincidence that when MAN redesigned the blocks basements to withstand much higher power levels, they decided to focus on the V8 and V12 (which are now up to 1200 and 2000 hp respectively), and phased out the V10.
Bottom line, for serious mile crunching at displacement speed, I would definitely prefer the V12s, like the ones that SL used for their 62.
Still, if given a choice between the MAN 820 and any Detroits, I'd pick the MAN any day.
That said, Bart is absolutely correct: previous history/maintenance is what can make a big difference - MUCH more than the original brand/model.

PS: another thought on the boats you are considering: if you like the SL57, also the Canados 58 is definitely worth looking at.
She was also MAN V10/820 powered by the way (which is the reason why she just popped to my mind), but for comparable price and conditions, between the two I'd rather have the Canados.
Not a night and day difference of course, just personal preference.
The SL62 definitely "wins" over the C58, though.

 

[Portofino]

V10 later electrotwackery modals have cylinder deactivation at tick over , so a 5 pot side will always feel rougher .

Current line up as you see the 18 L V10s output is smothered by the V8 s rises .

looks pretty congested .

If a sensible naval architect calculated the Hp , pretty sure a pair of the above would suit .
As Mapish said as well as electrotwackery, CR and the like they actually did a whole block revision across the range .

The general evolution follows a typical family tree .
Block 2 V .
Then quad valves .
Then EDC + the birth of electrotwackery
Then CR + major electrotwackery - nodding to EU / WW - tier emissions regulations.
Then turbos upped .

Now the cross roads . More Hp verses reliably/ longevity
1- carry one and cross fingers with the bottom end ?
2- new block beef up the bottom end + pistons . This is the route MAN choose. All the blocks are new now .

Sequential turbos or variable vane .Looking over your shoulder at the EU tier emissions chasing you again ?
MAN went sequential as more durable + more emission efficiency.

Whats ever next …….hybrids -electric motors + diesels = more Hp .Dare I say greener same Hp output ( adding the EV bit in ) from smaller blocks ?

How ever older big block mech injected low Hp ( by today’s stds ) 820 s have a certain appeal .

Or the cut off for me is sub CR . So 2005 back .
CR s are huge leap into a bigger bills , bigger issues , playground for used boats .Primarily centred on fuel hygiene.
As said ^^^ it’s all in the maintenance history .

 

[Zkaliman]

I’m getting a little more info on the 57 SL before I go over.

im currently holed up right outside London in a cheap studio - I left the EU because I did not want to continue using up my 90 Shenghen days during this boat buying trip. it’s a good hub to fly anywhere to go see the boat. How do u guys do it to stay over 90 ?

But actually I wanted to bug you guys with an important question and see what u guys thought about this 53 hatteras in Spain - they do have the Detroit diesel 2 stroke - properly maintained I read they are dependable - boat is utilitarian - but I’m ok with that - I used to have a 42 aft cabin defever - that worked well for me between La Paz Mexico and Vancouver bc and never had a delivery captain say he wouldn’t take it because it was STRANGE. assuming engines are in good shape (I’ll get an engine survey ) How “practical ” is this boat for tooling around the med ? This one from pictures does have the ability to walk around for the med mooring. any issues or impracticalities of such a boat design wise or motor wise I could be made aware of would be appreciated. I’m kind of up in the air between the 57SL and this one. someone recommended the 53 hatt as a good seaworthy option for med. and for longer voyages. in USA this boat and engine has good rep. I wanna chose the one that’s most practical for around here.
Thanx again - owe you lunch - hopefully “I’ll be on the water” soon. 1980 Hatteras hatteras 53 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

 

[Zkaliman]

Hi, I'm late to this,
re the duch boat idea,
If its one of those steel boats,, aimed at duch inland waters, you better ignore that for med / open sea use,
the hulls are not adressed at that useage,
and steel; I was told that inside those are not up to sea vapor use, meaning, when over 10yo rust inside is un stop able.
a friend who owns such a boat and was with her in the med told me...

however, that SL idea, would love to see a SL owner on here
I have a soft spot for those characterfull Italian FB's ao SanLorenzo , Alalunga, Maiora, Canados, ...
those brands were mainly producing >70ft, only a few <60ft models,

at the time, I have been looking at hatteras myself, but compared to the brands above; I don't like the inside style,
much more old fashion, and utilitarian, but I apreciate that some ppl like that.
contrary the Italian boats mentioned above are "superyacht finish inside",

re engines, in that size you will end with either VP D12..D13, MAN or Cat engines,
each has its pro's and cons, but none is really bad,
(I would ignore a boat with older DD 2stroke diesel engines)
the most important thing about the engines, is finding out if they have been well maintained / service history, AND
if there have not been serious problems (this is more diffficult to find out)

Interesting times !
good luck with your search !

In your opinion , Why ignore 2 stroke diesel ? Thanx for bringing that up .

 

[MapisM]

How “practical ” is this boat for tooling around the med ?

Practical, she definitely is.
I know that boat rather well because a boating mate of mine had one for many years, and you would struggle to find something with larger and more conveniently arranged interiors, for her size.
Her flip side is that if you wish to cruise at anything above 8 or 9 knots, her DD engines enter into "fuel destroyer" mode, and before you know your tanks will be empty.
So, you might wish to consider that boat only if you are OK with single digit speed for most of your time - not that you could go much faster anyway, mind: 15 kts at best.
In turn, this means that you probably would want to fit some stabilizers to her, because while she's a heavy, slow rolling boat, she can definitely use some kind of stabilization, both at displacement speed and at anchor.
I sort of like also her weird twin engine rooms, with a corridor going through them.
Whoever at Hatteras, back in the days, thought of that layout, must have been a heavy drinker...

PS: I meant to say, but I forgot.
You'd better have also the hull thoroughly surveyed, not just the engines.
Hatteras reputation for solid hulls is well deserved in terms of robustness, but their lamination leaves a lot to be desired in terms of osmosis resistance.
I've seen one of their sportfisherman boats, of similar vintage, so badly affected to require re-glassing patches of the bottom in many areas.

 

[piratos]

In your opinion , Why ignore 2 stroke diesel ? Thanx for bringing that up .

Looking around for a substitute to my present boat I have so far been avoiding the DD myself. Question is actually WHY ?

In this Forum they are probably NO GO - but if you read US forums they are not. I was looking at a boat that was up for auction (Not the usual Boating auctions) - it would have been at a low price and Lots of issues to deal with. Also the V10 820 MANs were more than due for a service. In a different Forum I read about the survey cost for such an engine - 15000 USD each. In the end I decided against this project so cannot confirm this price.

A Caterpilar 3208 is said to be a GOOD Engine. But if something seriously happens to that engine there is no cylinderliners to change, so its a repower. The BMW/Mercruiser is said to be a BAD engine. They can however be repaired. This special engine is very prone for overheating, and a servicebulletin from Merc required cleaning of cooling. Also MAN require regular cleaning of cooling every 2 years (Maintenance A1)

This thread has come quite far from the initial Long Range Cruiser - to a full planning italian boat

I know Bart loves his MANs although he did have serious repairs done.....but My questions is also WHY not the DD (please not just rumours)

 

[Divemaster1]

DD's are said to be thirsty and dirty, but that is because they are mostly completely mechanical devices which require a bit more love and care to "stay in tune".. If they fall our of tune, they tend to smoke and burn excess fuel. Also as the engines are heavy when compared with four strokes (A straight Six DD with 400 Hp weighs in at nearly 1,500 kg), which means that they may not be the best choice for a boat where speed is one of the primary concerns. However, parts are cheap (Injectors at around £150, filters around the £10 mark etc ...