Suitability of a 58 hatteras long range cruiser in the med

Divemaster1 said:
DD's are said to be thirsty and dirty, but that is because they are mostly completely mechanical devices which require a bit more love and care to "stay in tune".
If they fall our of tune, they tend to smoke and burn excess fuel.
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Agreed, but love and care are not enough without some specific competence.
And as I was told by the owner of the boat I previously mentioned, that's very hard to find in the Med, with just a few exceptions here and there.
As a result, his engines probably ran out of tune to some degree for most of their life...
Not sure about the UK, but I believe this is much less of a problem in the US of A.
 
I would not hold any - ve for DD s in a old Italian Lady if they have been well maintained.
As said the bigger MAN services if go by the book are expensive .
Cooler strip down after the initial warranty run out , tends to be done when it’s ready.Your water jacket temps rise .
You can DIY pull a pipe off the exit of a cooler and eyeball them .Any cooler for that matter .
I understand some self drain back and out after shut down , that’s why they are placed high up .
Mine do you hear if trickling back a few mins after shut down if you enter the ER .
Also as said pulling a pipe off the main cooler or g box cooler and it’s dry inside the next day .
I asked a very experienced official MAN franchised tech about two issues this summer while he fitted some new exhaust.
1- injector service .
2- cooler hygiene.

1- The 1000 hr pull em thing myth floating about .
Short Answer was 2000 hrs .There was a longer version outside this thread ,
2- Not necessary every 2 yrs he suggest 5 /6 more to free up the gaskets / joints / seals as opposed to “ they are bunged up “
He also said use them as intended , ie not too much slow speed and if possible run them at 80 % load if it’s a planning boat
As always it’s all in the history file .
Which kinda springs from the usage pattern .

If you want to “travel the Med “ go long distances then a slower Hat running 12/14 knots on DD s might be better than a SL57 artificially kept down at 12 knots on MAN s .
Or the fuel burn at planing with the SL s 820 s at 20 knots I reckon will be 350 L /h or more obviously @ 23 knots 400 + ?

You could of course ease back the Hat .

Just to digress .On a Sunseeker factory tour ( was buying on ) circa 2005 they were finishing a Preditor 95 , the then largest Pred .
It had a pair of John Deeres fitted for D speed ,Back story was owner was having a year sabbatical to travel the Med / semi live aboard. I had a wonder around it at the yard .
Fully crewed etc . So a lot of night travel possibly albeit at 12/14 knot eco speed .Also fins fitted .

I never have forgotten that concept .

So it strikes me ( listening to American forums and MAN engine forums ) why not re power a pretty practical old Italian lady , SL being a typical example.
If the motors are healthy at rip out they have a significant value to offset cost wise .
So take a SL 57 , sell the 820 s @ what €30-50 K each ? Then fit a pair of Vetus 200-300 Hp or what ever .
Theses will run nice and hot @80 % load for hrs and hrs , brand new etc .re prop it maybe for 8-12 knot range of speed .

The difference , what you put in over the €30_50 K + yard hrs is made up by the lower fuel burn over the use age assuming it’s doing mega hrs .+ manufacturer warranties as they are new so no hidden nasty big V12 MAN bills lurking in there .

As for the residual value …….life in the slow lane can only increase in popularity.
Aside in 3 yrs it’s got low cost 3 yr old motors as opposed to high cost maintenance and fuel burning 25-30 yr motors .
Premium asking price - Yes !
 
Portofino said:
So take a SL 57 , sell the 820 s @ what €30-50 K each ? Then fit a pair of Vetus 200-300 Hp or what ever .
Theses will run nice and hot @80 % load for hrs and hrs , brand new etc .re prop it maybe for 8-12 knot range of speed .

The difference , what you put in over the €30_50 K + yard hrs is made up by the lower fuel burn over the use age assuming it’s doing mega hrs .+ manufacturer warranties as they are new so no hidden nasty big V12 MAN bills lurking in there .

As for the residual value …….life in the slow lane can only increase in popularity.
Aside in 3 yrs it’s got low cost 3 yr old motors as opposed to high cost maintenance and fuel burning 25-30 yr motors .
Premium asking price - Yes !
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I was after this last year, with a 62' Semi Displacement boat with DDs. Intention was to buy fom Lancing Marine their 280 HP FPT/Iveco and scrap the old DDs. Unfortunately that boat was sold and I am back lurking for good opotunities... I am however not sure whether this will work on a any 50/60 ft planning boat without the Keel as the SD has....?
 
piratos said:
I was after this last year, with a 62' Semi Displacement boat with DDs. Intention was to buy fom Lancing Marine their 280 HP FPT/Iveco and scrap the old DDs. Unfortunately that boat was sold and I am back lurking for good opotunities... I am however not sure whether this will work on a any 50/60 ft planning boat without the Keel as the SD has....?
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I think with connectivity work wise , WFH , stay cations , the appeal of roaming endlessly from one idyllic Med island / bay in a self contained, SAFE environment burning as little diesel ( nod to Greta ) as possible is high .

There must be a market in turning theses 58-70 ftrs , with dinosaur motors into floating homes with lower running costs fuel wise .
 
piratos said:
Looking around for a substitute to my present boat I have so far been avoiding the DD myself. Question is actually WHY ?

In this Forum they are probably NO GO - but if you read US forums they are not. I was looking at a boat that was up for auction (Not the usual Boating auctions) - it would have been at a low price and Lots of issues to deal with. Also the V10 820 MANs were more than due for a service. In a different Forum I read about the survey cost for such an engine - 15000 USD each. In the end I decided against this project so cannot confirm this price.

A Caterpilar 3208 is said to be a GOOD Engine. But if something seriously happens to that engine there is no cylinderliners to change, so its a repower. The BMW/Mercruiser is said to be a BAD engine. They can however be repaired. This special engine is very prone for overheating, and a servicebulletin from Merc required cleaning of cooling. Also MAN require regular cleaning of cooling every 2 years (Maintenance A1)

This thread has come quite far from the initial Long Range Cruiser - to a full planning italian boat ;)

I know Bart loves his MANs although he did have serious repairs done.....but My questions is also WHY not the DD (please not just rumours)
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Boatdiesel.com is a good resource for mostly USA engine opinions- pretty sharp people there - it’s 20 dollars per year but it’s pretty cool- sharp people there also like on this forum.
 
Zkaliman said:
In your opinion , Why ignore 2 stroke diesel ? Thanx for bringing that up .
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ok, no exact science here,
as has been answered from others;
first of all, they are diesel destroyers, ;-), those will be the first diesel engines to be stopped from beiing used here in Europe re exhaust regulations, (tbh my old mechanical Man's won't be much later)
contrary to US, its much harder to find capable service people in the med, as DD Diesels are rather the exception than the rule, its the same with service knowledge
Well, Alf / Divemaster has a huge know how on his and other DD's, but he is a really hands on guy, and does all service himself, again rather the exception,

then there is resale value; as DD's are equivalent to very old boats, I think those boats will be very hard to sell in the coming years,...

and last but not least, I don't like the screaming sound of those engines, I apreciate that's not everybody's opinion.

I'm not really in love with my MAN's, but I still like them, parts are cheap and easy available everywhere in europe.
the problems I had, could have been avoided with better preventive maintenance, but I'm sure bcs they are MAN, the cost of the twin rebuild was "acceptable" and worth doing
touch wood, but since than the engines run smooth, and good enough for another good number of years.

I'm sure that CAT are really good engines, but overall a bit more expensive to maintain,
imo the preference for DD and Cat on US forums, is bcs they are US ....with all consequences; availability of parts and service.
 
Well ladies and gentleman boys and girls - and PRONOUNS ! thanx for all your advice - lottsa experience on this forum , I listened to you guys and I ended up buying a 44 defever in spain - pretty much exactly like this but only one generator and not in good shape (actually in horrible shape - I got duped - anyways more on that later) 1985 DeFever 44 Trawler Trawler for sale - YachtWorld so did i do good or bad for cruising around the med ? I wanted a pretty plastic single level thing like I see in the magazines - but they all have high HP. I have a friend he’s French and a boat captain - he doesn’t like it - says too tall so boat acts like a sail and in med windy and then hard when getting into a stern docking and no passarelle (easy fix ) no bow thruster , no stern thruster , dinghy on top of aft deck so difficult to launch as opposed to being on swim step - what do you guys think - did I buy a difficult boat for the med to cruise around and especially to dock ? Greetings from Fiji -I’ll b in spain in a couple weeks.
 
Zkaliman said:
Well ladies and gentleman boys and girls - and PRONOUNS ! thanx for all your advice - lottsa experience on this forum , I listened to you guys and I ended up buying a 44 defever in spain - pretty much exactly like this but only one generator and not in good shape (actually in horrible shape - I got duped - anyways more on that later) 1985 DeFever 44 Trawler Trawler for sale - YachtWorld so did i do good or bad for cruising around the med ? I wanted a pretty plastic single level thing like I see in the magazines - but they all have high HP. I have a friend he’s French and a boat captain - he doesn’t like it - says too tall so boat acts like a sail and in med windy and then hard when getting into a stern docking and no passarelle (easy fix ) no bow thruster , no stern thruster , dinghy on top of aft deck so difficult to launch as opposed to being on swim step - what do you guys think - did I buy a difficult boat for the med to cruise around and especially to dock ? Greetings from Fiji -I’ll b in spain in a couple weeks.
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Well...first ...congratulations for getting a boat👍😎...and a trawler...which shows you are a man of taste!
As an owner of a short fat tall single engine trawler...it will be difficult (not impossible) without thrusters...especially in the wind. I would retrofit them as soon as I could..and make them as powerful as possible. If the boat does roll a lot you could always get stabilizers.
Anyhow, the important thing is that you have a boat and it means from now on you will not have a moment to call your own or a penny...the boat will take the lot.!!
We all love a project on this forum...so post lots of pictures 👍😎
 
Looks fine for your intended usage pattern and nice in theory engines if they have been correctly maintained.

The lack of thrusters means you are absolutely right it will be difficult to dock for an inexperienced guy at the wheel .More so in wind . Passerelle is needed too in the Med .

I guess you could have the thrusters fitted at the same time as the passerelle? €20_30 K by a decent yard all in .

You will need to run a geny full time to get the Naiads to work .On a 44 that might be extra noise unless the genys are in sound boxes .
 
Bouba said:
Well...first ...congratulations for getting a boat👍😎...and a trawler...which shows you are a man of taste!
As an owner of a short fat tall single engine trawler...it will be difficult (not impossible) without thrusters...especially in the wind. I would retrofit them as soon as I could..and make them as powerful as possible. If the boat does roll a lot you could always get stabilizers.
Anyhow, the important thing is that you have a boat and it means from now on you will not have a moment to call your own or a penny...the boat will take the lot.!!
We all love a project on this forum...so post lots of pictures 👍😎
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It does have 2 engines and it is stabilized - u recomend bow and stern thrusters or just bow
 
Zkaliman said:
It does have 2 engines and it is stabilized - u recomend bow and stern thrusters or just bow
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Sorry I missed the part about two engines (I have been working on the boat in the blazing sun...so I’m not as alert as I should)...most people would start with a bow truster, if it were a single I would consider a stern thruster first...but first thing I would do is take her on the water and get a feel for her...she will tell you exactly what she needs👍
 
Portofino said:
You will need to run a geny full time to get the Naiads to work.
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Are you aware of some peculiarity of Zkaliman boat that I missed?
In any normal Naiad installation, the HP oil pump is driven by one of the two mains (as was the case in my own boat), or both.
It's only when fins are also designed for zero speed (and up to not many years ago, most were not) that you need another pump on the genset PTO, or driven by electric motor.
 
Zkaliman said:
did I buy a difficult boat for the med to cruise around and especially to dock?
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I'd say you bought a "difficult" boat, period. When compared to similar size modern boat with all sort of gizmos, possibly including joystick, it will take you a bit more practice to dock regardless of where you are based.
But I put the adjective in brackets because many years ago, I also bought a 53' trawler with twin screws and no thrusters at all.
Learning how she reacted and how to maneuver her was a substantial part of the fun.
Just practice in open waters first, and take your time. You'll be fine. (y)
 
I think you have us very interested in your purchase. Please be sure to let us know the story and photographs please :)
 
Hey guys , just wanted to check in and thank you all for your help in finding my boat for the med , discussed 58 hatteras long Range cruisers through the classic 57 San Lorenzo and even I believe an Otam was mentioned for a different type of cruising. As you know I ended up with a 44 foot stabilized defever trawler - and here I was searching for a beautiful Italian yacht! to live la vida dolce- but just the horsepower was too high on those boats. I’m in empuriabrava Spain doing repairs, hopefully finally shoving off soon, as u may know the broker had told me the boat was in super fantastic shape so I bought on his word and when I arrived from US, well it was a fixer upper- oh well my fault live and learn. Anyways thanx again for your insight and hopefully will be in Italy WITH BOAT soon. Prolly looking for a nice quiet place in sardegna to be. Cheers thanx again. https://www.defevercruisers.com/design_details.asp?id=11
 
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