Submerged ad41's after bilge pump failed

lynall said:
Have to say i have been truck mech for 25 plus years now and not seen any water damaged belts, and owned many land rovers, all the land rovers have been underwater, not just wet but underwater/mud many times and all the belts are just fine.
Stating the obvious but do you change your car tyres when they have got wet?
Any online references would be excellent to see.
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Sorry for the Fred Drift, but tyres are designed to run in water, hence they use a solvent based glue to adhere the various compounds. Engine drive belts are not. On the military Land Rovers, we used a tap off the turbo to pressurise the engine front cover to stop water ingress through the front seal. We had several failures during trialling so had to make the mod. Belts on the front of the engine dry very quickly so the glue is not a problem. It is only a problem if the belts remain in the water for any time.
 
Dry out the bilge, spray engine with wd40, dip the oil (has it risen) if so then you got water in there, if not then see if it will turn over, it might even start. as no water has reached the air intake, the intercooler and turbo should be fine.
 
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As suggested, drain out all waer and oil from sumps, fill with diesel to top of engine , leave for a while to penetrate inside the engine, pump out, fill sump to level 10 litres then pump out , fill again with fresh oil.

You will def need recon alternators and starters,that design of starter fails with damp, you will also have water in the bell housing which if left will damage your new starters straight away.

The only 100% fix is to remove the engines from the boat, that would be my plan if itwere mine.
 
omega2 said:
Dry out the bilge, spray engine with wd40, dip the oil (has it risen) if so then you got water in there, if not then see if it will turn over, it might even start. as no water has reached the air intake, the intercooler and turbo should be fine. remove the possible cause post as well "THEY" MIGHT BE WATCHING.
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you might amend your post as well ;)
 
You say salt water has got in via the leg do you mean through the drive shaft bellows or the drive itself ?
Either way if it has got to the bell housing then you have potentially serious cost implications
Get the boat out ASAP Do not try to turn the affected engines over. Get the leg/s drained and flushed ! Strip the intermediate shafts and inspect the drive plates do not leave any water especially salt in this area or it will come back and bite you as will any wiring that have got wet in salt water also worth checking sump pans for rust .
 
rafiki_ said:
Sorry for the Fred Drift, but tyres are designed to run in water, hence they use a solvent based glue to adhere the various compounds. Engine drive belts are not. On the military Land Rovers, we used a tap off the turbo to pressurise the engine front cover to stop water ingress through the front seal. We had several failures during trialling so had to make the mod. Belts on the front of the engine dry very quickly so the glue is not a problem. It is only a problem if the belts remain in the water for any time.
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No need to pressurise the casing as its watertight, just fit the drain bung, cheap simple and it works. But we arent talking about cam belts, just std every day work in all weather aux drive belts.
I often park my land rover up for a week or two after having have washed my engine many times and left it there, much to my amazement the belts are still there when I next use it.
Like I mentioned above please show me some evidence/references and I promise you I will amazed.
Some trucks have belt driven compressors that are almost permanently wet, some dont get used from one year to the next, the belts are still good.
 
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volvopaul said:
As suggested, drain out all waer and oil from sumps, fill with diesel to top of engine , leave for a while to penetrate inside the engine, pump out, fill sump to level 10 litres then pump out , fill again with fresh oil.

You will def need recon alternators and starters,that design of starter fails with damp, you will also have water in the bell housing which if left will damage your new starters straight away.

The only 100% fix is to remove the engines from the boat, that would be my plan if itwere mine.
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Excellent advice there Paul as one would expect. If the OP is mechanically minded then the sooner the engines are able to be stripped down and cleaned properly the better. I was shocked at how much corrosion to white metal was done is so short a time by sea water, so I really hope the OP's engines did not get much sea water inside.
 
volvopaul said:
As suggested, drain out all waer and oil from sumps, fill with diesel to top of engine , leave for a while to penetrate inside the engine, pump out, fill sump to level 10 litres then pump out , fill again with fresh oil.

You will def need recon alternators and starters,that design of starter fails with damp, you will also have water in the bell housing which if left will damage your new starters straight away.

The only 100% fix is to remove the engines from the boat, that would be my plan if itwere mine.
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Better a stitch in time then Paul, a much cheaper solution
 
lynall said:
No need to pressurise the casing as its watertight, just fit the drain bung, cheap simple and it works. But we arent talking about cam belts, just std every day work in all weather aux drive belts.
I often park my land rover up for a week or two after having have washed my engine many times and left it there, much to my amazement the belts are still there when I next use it.
Like I mentioned above please show me some evidence/references and I promise you I will amazed.
Some trucks have belt driven compressors that are almost permanently wet, some dont get used from one year to the next, the belts are still good.
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Lynall, I'm not getting into a p!ssing contest on this. I saw the evidence of failed belts, and with the Landies on military trials, had to develop a solution. The front cover is supposed to be watertight, but can draw water in if quenched. That is why we pressurised it, to stop any potential for ingress The squaddies love the Wolf Landies as they are so tough and reliable, even after 15 or so years service. You can ignore if you like, that is your prerogative. Having witnessed the failures, I would change the belts. Relatively cheap to do so, and the consequences of failure, especially at sea, could be expensive.
 
Bit late now, but the thing to do with electric bits is put them in fresh water, take them to a marine engineer who should have the correct stuff to dry them out.
 
Surely what happens all depends on if the boat IS insured ? and/or if insurance company will accept liability. ?


If the owner has to sort it out himself ,would suggest he needs to get a move on.
Priority for me would be to check if oil is contaminated with water.
Draw dipstick to see if any raising of oil level and then drain sample of sump oil, if no water comes out first... a good sign.
Try to turn engine over slowly BY HAND using big socket and bar on crank pulley bolt.
If no water in sump and engine turns prob nothing in bores and worse scenario has been avoided.
Next would be how far you want to go with alternators and starters.
Starters are built like brick whatsits and may be salvageable simply by dismantling then flooding with WD40 or your favourite snake oil and reassembly.
Alternators are bit(lot) more fragile.
Everything can either be rebuilt or P/X them in for recon items.
On one of my boats a starter motor and an alternator were under water at some time. Both failed later on but it took about 12 months for them to finally give up the ghost.
You can find acceptable new replacement alternators for a similar cost to rebuilds on Ebay.
Did water get in via leg,rubberware or mebbe steering shaft.would doubt it was transom shield leak.
Boat obviously needs to be ashore and get that leg leak sorted and hope water has not got into outdrive drive from inside boat.
 
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rafiki_ said:
Lynall, I'm not getting into a p!ssing contest on this. I saw the evidence of failed belts, and with the Landies on military trials, had to develop a solution. The front cover is supposed to be watertight, but can draw water in if quenched. That is why we pressurised it, to stop any potential for ingress The squaddies love the Wolf Landies as they are so tough and reliable, even after 15 or so years service. You can ignore if you like, that is your prerogative. Having witnessed the failures, I would change the belts. Relatively cheap to do so, and the consequences of failure, especially at sea, could be expensive.
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But I waas enjoying it!
 
Thanks for your reply.

Both starters and alternators have been removed and are in fresh water now and will be cleaned tomorrow.

Both dipsticks checked and oil level seems normal. Bilge pump repaired and a secondary one has been fitted.

The leak is from the steering shaft. The port engine will need lifted to replace this seal.

I would be interested to hear any other checks or procedures I should carry out?

Should I drain the oil anyway? Both engines had filter and oil changes only 4 hours ago.

oldgit said:
Surely what happens all depends on if the boat IS insured ? and/or if insurance company will accept liability. ?


If the owner has to sort it out himself ,would suggest he needs to get a move on.
Priority for me would be to check if oil is contaminated with water.
Draw dipstick to see if any raising of oil level and then drain sample of sump oil, if no water comes out first... a good sign.
Try to turn engine over slowly BY HAND using big socket and bar on crank pulley bolt.
If no water in sump and engine turns prob nothing in bores and worse scenario has been avoided.
Next would be how far you want to go with alternators and starters.
Starters are built like brick whatsits and may be salvageable simply by dismantling then flooding with WD40 or your favourite snake oil and reassembly.
Alternators are bit(lot) more fragile.
Everything can either be rebuilt or P/X them in for recon items.
On one of my boats a starter motor and an alternator were under water at some time. Both failed later on but it took about 12 months for them to finally give up the ghost.
You can find acceptable new replacement alternators for a similar cost to rebuilds on Ebay.
Did water get in via leg,rubberware or mebbe steering shaft.would doubt it was transom shield leak.
Boat obviously needs to be ashore and get that leg leak sorted and hope water has not got into outdrive drive from inside boat.
Click to expand...
 
Would def change all fluids at some point and think the injectors are easy to pull (unlike the later " more advanced" engines.
The steering bushes never ever get replaced due to ridiculous amount of work and time to change the couple of plastic bushes and the seal.
Problem is the more water that gets in hull the lower the transom goes and the more water pressure to force water into boat.
Some legs had a grease nipple but of course such a barstewad to get to, being hidden behind just about everything, even the folks aware of its existence avoid getting a grease gun on it.
If grease not replenished frequently,old grease solidifys in passage , goes solid and becomes immovable until cleared out with bit of wire etc and of course you need leg off the do the job.
I had two of the buggas just like the OP.
Good Luck.
Think you may have just got away with he worst that could have happened.
 
oldgit said:
Surely what happens all depends on if the boat IS insured ? and/or if insurance company will accept liability. ?


If the owner has to sort it out himself ,would suggest he needs to get a move on.
Priority for me would be to check if oil is contaminated with water.
Draw dipstick to see if any raising of oil level and then drain sample of sump oil, if no water comes out first... a good sign.
Try to turn engine over slowly BY HAND using big socket and bar on crank pulley bolt.
If no water in sump and engine turns prob nothing in bores and worse scenario has been avoided.
Next would be how far you want to go with alternators and starters.
Starters are built like brick whatsits and may be salvageable simply by dismantling then flooding with WD40 or your favourite snake oil and reassembly.
Alternators are bit(lot) more fragile.
Everything can either be rebuilt or P/X them in for recon items.
On one of my boats a starter motor and an alternator were under water at some time. Both failed later on but it took about 12 months for them to finally give up the ghost.
You can find acceptable new replacement alternators for a similar cost to rebuilds on Ebay.
Did water get in via leg,rubberware or mebbe steering shaft.would doubt it was transom shield leak.
Boat obviously needs to be ashore and get that leg leak sorted and hope water has not got into outdrive drive from inside boat.
Click to expand...

There's an echo in here?? or is de javu, whatever definitely the way I would go. post 22, same idea not as protracted though. LOL
 
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