Submarines

OTOH....

Some years ago, while transiting the Irish Sea southbound, two-up in a Dragonfly 10m trimaran, the mast fell down in the night. It took the two of us several hours to strip off the sails, the standing and running rigging and the cables, and then winch the darned thing back aboard to strap it down onto some berth cushions. When this was done, we were both quite exhausted and decided to await full daylight for the necessary visual check for lines in the water near the prop.

I went below in the half-dawn to make some tea, leaving Mike in the cockpit, and must have dozed off, for Mike's startled scream had me scrambling into the cockpit before my eyes were properly open. He was gibbering and pointing.....

There crossing our stern about 50 meters away was the huge black and sinister shape of the surfaced HMS Torbay ( we found out later ), which circled round us like a giant predatory shark. There were 3 or 4 white caps visible on the top of the sail, and when we got our scrambled wits back, we realised they'd probably seen our odd shape in the half-light, wondered what on earth we were up to, then realised when closer that our mast was strapped across the boat, sails were bagged on the other trampoline, and that we were in some sort of trouble.

Of course, we couldn't communicate by VHF, for our antenna was dangling from the mast and the cable had been cut. Natch, we didn't then have a handheld.

The sub's commander was clearly standing by, concerned for our safety and lest someone was injured but, we surmised, didn't want to hang about on the surface 'cos that's against a submariner's religion. We didn't want them to feel they had to launch a small boat to come over and look - but how on earth to communicate?

I knew all the means of attracting attention when in need of help, but the RYA don't do a signal for "We're OK, thanks!". Then I remembered..... and, clambering onto the sugar scoop, ostentatiously lifted our ensign on its short staff, then 'dipped' it to the warship.

That did it. We'd communicated effectively. With a watery roar from its propulsor, the 5000-odd tons of nuclear killing machine charged off at considerable speed southwards.

:cool:
 
Didn't poor 'Drum' get clobbered with a periscope out in the Minch ? (about 20 odd yrs ago ...) Vaguely recall her motoring up the clyde a bit low in the bow, or what was left of it.

Yep.......Owned by Arnold Clark and apparently did substantial damage to the Periscope...Cost lots and lots more to fix the sub than the hole in DRUM
 
Maxxi77

[/ QUOTE ]

One of my biggest worries was not yachts or fishing boats but VLCCs heading for Finnart who would stop engines 20 miles south of the Cumbraes and then coast 250000 tonnes of silent death, not a noice thought[/QUOTE]

Never sailed on a VLCC that did that, qickest way to slow down was to maintain dead slow ahead revs using astern steam to brake, not possible with a motor engine except to go to d/s ahead power settings.
even wth all engines stopped the noise from the aux/power plant would deafen the Devil.
 
[/ QUOTE ]

One of my biggest worries was not yachts or fishing boats but VLCCs heading for Finnart who would stop engines 20 miles south of the Cumbraes and then coast 250000 tonnes of silent death, not a noice thought

Never sailed on a VLCC that did that, qickest way to slow down was to maintain dead slow ahead revs using astern steam to brake, not possible with a motor engine except to go to d/s ahead power settings.
even wth all engines stopped the noise from the aux/power plant would deafen the Devil.[/QUOTE]

The problem was that if you were within about 10 degrees of the bow of a VLCC that was not actively driving the prop the 200000 tons of oil deadened all the machinery noise making them very hard to hear, very different on thhe beam where the machinery noise would be very clear. In general if we were dived of Aran a VLCC coming into the Clyde would be very difficult to detect under the right circumstances which really did worry us.
 
In the late 1980's I was motoring in my Carter 30 across the Channel, Needles to Cherbourg, in a flat calm.

In about mid-Channel, it was plain a NATO exercise was on, warships of various nations around.

Then a German warship charged up quite close, then stopped - from my Tom Clancy books I imagine this was the 'sprint and drift' sub hunting technique.

They then launched a helicopter, which hovered with a dipping sonar and dropped a smoke float right by us.

my normally cool and collected crew was quite alarmed by the warship doing a good impression of a Klingon Bird Of Prey aiming at us, but couldn't raise them on VHF, radio silence I presume.

I twigged what was going on, and turned on the depthsounder, quite a powerful Seafarer unit; sure enough the depth went '60 fathoms, 60, 60, 20, 20...I imagine some smart sub driver had hear our engine / prop and was hiding beneath us, thumbing his nose at the warships !

There was the story of a submarine seminar held after the end of the Cold War, a Russian commented ' I think the Devon scenery is wonderful'; a Brit said " I thought this was your first visit ?".....'Ahh, periscope !'


When I worked at a test range near Portpatrick Scotland we got to know the fishing fleet; they absolutely hated subs, blaming them for a few mystery sinkings, and mentioned one day an SSN surfaced in the middle of the fishing fleet !

I think a Contessa 32 got sunk by a periscope in Scottish waters ?

I have to say I'd put my money on submariners rather than fishing boats for professionalsm though.

I've asked submariners if keeping the depthsounder going helps avoidance by subs, the answer was 'maybe, certainly better than nothing'...
 
In the Turkish Aegean last Fri and sailing off Yalikavak where there is a very prominent outcrop know as, 'Submarine Rock'. From a distance it really does look alike a conning tower complete with periscopes and if you can see it, you know pretty much where you are.
Anyway, I saw it but it was nowhere near where I thought it should be and I spent 10 mins plotting and re plotting until I noticed that the rock had moved and it had a bow wave.
Not sure how many subs there are in the Turkish navy but, what were the chances?
 
I've asked submariners if keeping the depthsounder going helps avoidance by subs, the answer was 'maybe, certainly better than nothing'...

If motoring, there shouldn't be an issue.
If sailing in an area activated for dived submarine operations, I generally play some music in the bilge - loud enough to blast the ears off a passive sonar operator. I haven't been sunk by a submarine yet - which proves it's effective:p
 
If motoring, there shouldn't be an issue.
If sailing in an area activated for dived submarine operations, I generally play some music in the bilge - loud enough to blast the ears off a passive sonar operator. I haven't been sunk by a submarine yet - which proves it's effective:p

Many years back when I was a junior engineer in one of the S class, a distant passive sonar contact was instantly classified by a (black) sonar operator as a banana boat. When challenged by the officer of the watch he explained, with a beaming smile, "Reggae on de bearing, Sah!"
 
Came across this Dutchman in May this year, eastern Solent making her way towards gilkicker from Cowes. taken using my phone carp pic but at home looked her up on the net, she was HNLMS DOLFIJN.

28052012135_zpsaa1f99d9.jpg




http://www.flickr.com/photos/14636434@N02/4322399875/
 
Always take reports from submariners with a pinch of salt. My dad was torpedoed during the war: he was manning an AA gun on an island in a North African harbour when a torpedo from an Italian sub ran up the beach and stopped a few feet from his gun. The following morning the Italian radio announced they had sunk a cruiser.
 
In the late 1980's I was motoring in my Carter 30 across the Channel, Needles to Cherbourg, in a flat calm.

In about mid-Channel, it was plain a NATO exercise was on, warships of various nations around.

Then a German warship charged up quite close, then stopped - from my Tom Clancy books I imagine this was the 'sprint and drift' sub hunting technique.

They then launched a helicopter, which hovered with a dipping sonar and dropped a smoke float right by us.

my normally cool and collected crew was quite alarmed by the warship doing a good impression of a Klingon Bird Of Prey aiming at us, but couldn't raise them on VHF, radio silence I presume.

I twigged what was going on, and turned on the depthsounder, quite a powerful Seafarer unit; sure enough the depth went '60 fathoms, 60, 60, 20, 20...I imagine some smart sub driver had hear our engine / prop and was hiding beneath us, thumbing his nose at the warships !

There was the story of a submarine seminar held after the end of the Cold War, a Russian commented ' I think the Devon scenery is wonderful'; a Brit said " I thought this was your first visit ?".....'Ahh, periscope !'


When I worked at a test range near Portpatrick Scotland we got to know the fishing fleet; they absolutely hated subs, blaming them for a few mystery sinkings, and mentioned one day an SSN surfaced in the middle of the fishing fleet !

I think a Contessa 32 got sunk by a periscope in Scottish waters ?

I have to say I'd put my money on submariners rather than fishing boats for professionalsm though.

I've asked submariners if keeping the depthsounder going helps avoidance by subs, the answer was 'maybe, certainly better than nothing'...

The irony of the Contessa sinking was that it was a joint services yacht. It was hit by a bomber on its way out from the Clyde heading for its patrol area. It knew it had sunk the yacht and the crew were in the water but did not stop - they are under orders not to stop for anything! It did report back and a few hours later an MOD tug arrived and picked the crew up - thankfully they all survived.

Many years ago, with that report in mind, I found myself in what was obviously a submarine exercise off Portland. There was a frigate stooging around in the distance and several helicopters dunking sonar buoys about a mile away.

I went below and heard what I can only describe as mechanical noises I have never heard before or since. There was no noise on deck and no surface vessels anywhere near enough to cause the noise. I got my mate to check that I was not hearing things and we decided that it had to be the exercise submarine hiding underneath or close by us. I got the biggest wrench I could find, lifted the boards, and thumped out F--- O-- in morse on the bottom of the boat. About two minutes later the noise went away!
 
The irony of the Contessa sinking was that it was a joint services yacht. It was hit by a bomber on its way out from the Clyde heading for its patrol area. It knew it had sunk the yacht and the crew were in the water but did not stop - they are under orders not to stop for anything! It did report back and a few hours later an MOD tug arrived and picked the crew up - thankfully they all survived.

Many years ago, with that report in mind, I found myself in what was obviously a submarine exercise off Portland. There was a frigate stooging around in the distance and several helicopters dunking sonar buoys about a mile away.

I went below and heard what I can only describe as mechanical noises I have never heard before or since. There was no noise on deck and no surface vessels anywhere near enough to cause the noise. I got my mate to check that I was not hearing things and we decided that it had to be the exercise submarine hiding underneath or close by us. I got the biggest wrench I could find, lifted the boards, and thumped out F--- O-- in morse on the bottom of the boat. About two minutes later the noise went away!

I've heard a noise a few times through the hull, a massive ' bawoing !' shaking the boat; I presume the seldom used active sonar from a sub.

I've also heard the sound of a big diesel engine coming and going fast ( doppler effect ) in mid Channel; I put this down to an Air Independent Propulsion - AIP - sub, these smaller hunter killers store oxygen and use it to power air breathing engines underwater.

Has anyone else experienced this ?
 
I've heard a noise a few times through the hull, a massive ' bawoing !' shaking the boat; I presume the seldom used active sonar from a sub.

I've also heard the sound of a big diesel engine coming and going fast ( doppler effect ) in mid Channel; I put this down to an Air Independent Propulsion - AIP - sub, these smaller hunter killers store oxygen and use it to power air breathing engines underwater.

Has anyone else experienced this ?

Diesels aint air independant, AIP is achieved either with fuel cells or stirling engines neither of which make a diesel sound. If you had ever stood at the bottom of a boats tower when running 2 ASR16s on the surface you would appreciate the difficulty of bottling enough of the stuff
 
Diesels aint air independant, AIP is achieved either with fuel cells or stirling engines neither of which make a diesel sound. If you had ever stood at the bottom of a boats tower when running 2 ASR16s on the surface you would appreciate the difficulty of bottling enough of the stuff

Which was my point !

As I understand it stirling engined boats - at least early ones - had coiled tubing around the inside of the pressure hull to contain all the oxygen, I'd guess this had a useful reinforcing effect too ?

What did we hear then ?!

I do appreciate subs' like to be quiet, which is why it struck me as odd; no other craft of any kind anywhere in sight, mid-Channel...
 
Which was my point !

As I understand it stirling engined boats - at least early ones - had coiled tubing around the inside of the pressure hull to contain all the oxygen, I'd guess this had a useful reinforcing effect too ?

What did we hear then ?!

I do appreciate subs' like to be quiet, which is why it struck me as odd; no other craft of any kind anywhere in sight, mid-Channel...

All the various AIP systems use bottled O2 but none use a diesel. The stirling engines are very well accoustically isolated from the hull so your chance of hearing one of them without some pretty smart kit you would never hear them.

What ever you heard it would be very unlikely it was a submarines unless it was an soviet Whiskey snorting somewhere near
 
The only thing you would ever hear from a dived boat will be active sonar. You will need to be near and below decks.

Buckleys chance of any sonar operator picking up the noise of a yacht echo sounder.

Submariners do it deeper. :)
 
When I worked in heat seeking/detecting technology the technology that was used was many years beyond what was being discussed openly in public and media.

On submarines I just do the bearings though.
 
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