maxi77
Well-Known Member
Knowing the patch of water you mentioned relatively well I can asure you that no submarine would be operating dived there, good story but wouldn't pass the snopes test.
Submarines
- Thread starter Csail
- Start date
ValleyForge
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Knowing the patch of water you mentioned relatively well I can asure you that no submarine would be operating dived there, good story but wouldn't pass the snopes test.
[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Well I don't know about that, this was when Inverkip chimney was but a stump & all the hot racers were owned by hard steeplejack types so early 70's when we did a bit of mucking about with the Royal Northern lot. Of course it could have been belchin' bertie, the famously flatulent porpoise, or possibly the effects of too much malt on the breakfast cornflakes (again) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Knowing the patch of water you mentioned relatively well I can asure you that no submarine would be operating dived there, good story but wouldn't pass the snopes test.
[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Well I don't know about that, this was when Inverkip chimney was but a stump & all the hot racers were owned by hard steeplejack types so early 70's when we did a bit of mucking about with the Royal Northern lot. Of course it could have been belchin' bertie, the famously flatulent porpoise, or possibly the effects of too much malt on the breakfast cornflakes (again) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
DFB
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I recall seeing Drum not long after she was hit, she was lying in Rosneath boatyard getting repaired. The gash in her side must have been at least 20 foot long. Any smaller boat would have gone straight to the bottom. I always wondered if she bent the subs periscope.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was on the boat (not submarine) that hit Drum. We were at Periscope depth with the search periscope up. For those that don't know it's about 6 inches thick. Anyway the OOW on the search just did not see Drum, and we put a very large gash in her side. We surfaced as soon as possible and offered assistance to Drum. (At this stage Drum felt that we'd given enough 'assistance')
As for avoiding fishing nets - easy it ain't. If a F/V is drifting and you're running below PD, then you stand a very good chance of getting tangled up in them. Best advice for F/V's - keep the bloody engine running as we can hear that miles away.
I recall seeing Drum not long after she was hit, she was lying in Rosneath boatyard getting repaired. The gash in her side must have been at least 20 foot long. Any smaller boat would have gone straight to the bottom. I always wondered if she bent the subs periscope.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was on the boat (not submarine) that hit Drum. We were at Periscope depth with the search periscope up. For those that don't know it's about 6 inches thick. Anyway the OOW on the search just did not see Drum, and we put a very large gash in her side. We surfaced as soon as possible and offered assistance to Drum. (At this stage Drum felt that we'd given enough 'assistance')
As for avoiding fishing nets - easy it ain't. If a F/V is drifting and you're running below PD, then you stand a very good chance of getting tangled up in them. Best advice for F/V's - keep the bloody engine running as we can hear that miles away.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Knowing the patch of water you mentioned relatively well I can asure you that no submarine would be operating dived there, good story but wouldn't pass the snopes test.
[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Well I don't know about that, this was when Inverkip chimney was but a stump & all the hot racers were owned by hard steeplejack types so early 70's when we did a bit of mucking about with the Royal Northern lot. Of course it could have been belchin' bertie, the famously flatulent porpoise, or possibly the effects of too much malt on the breakfast cornflakes (again) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Started up there before then, but I was one of the chaps on the black tubular things, and even our transatlantic cousins didn't dive between the Holy Loch and the Cumbraes, there just isn't the water, especially with tankers drawing the best part of 100 feet. Loch Long and Loch Fyne were different though.
[ QUOTE ]
Knowing the patch of water you mentioned relatively well I can asure you that no submarine would be operating dived there, good story but wouldn't pass the snopes test.
[/ QUOTE ]
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Well I don't know about that, this was when Inverkip chimney was but a stump & all the hot racers were owned by hard steeplejack types so early 70's when we did a bit of mucking about with the Royal Northern lot. Of course it could have been belchin' bertie, the famously flatulent porpoise, or possibly the effects of too much malt on the breakfast cornflakes (again) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Started up there before then, but I was one of the chaps on the black tubular things, and even our transatlantic cousins didn't dive between the Holy Loch and the Cumbraes, there just isn't the water, especially with tankers drawing the best part of 100 feet. Loch Long and Loch Fyne were different though.
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Excellent reply. Thanks for that. Problem is on here lots of opinions by desk bound experts. I am not an expert but your opinion is surly the most qualified on this thread.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
I remember an article about a boat getting hit by a RN sub. in the Irish sea at night. They went down so quick, that there was no time to get the L/raft out. They managed a quick Mayday though and the escort picked them up after a few minutes, just in time, as the skipper wasn´t able to inflate his LJ and was being held up by his children.
That might have been in PBO about 15yrs ago (total guess)
A
That might have been in PBO about 15yrs ago (total guess)
A
Bilgediver
Well-Known Member
though as I said the real risk of being hit is very sl;ight.
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Tell that to Arnold Clarke......Drum was walluped by a periscope the top of which landed on deck.....Navy denied.....until they realised there was a million squids worth missing which Arnold had!!!
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Tell that to Arnold Clarke......Drum was walluped by a periscope the top of which landed on deck.....Navy denied.....until they realised there was a million squids worth missing which Arnold had!!!
maxi77
Well-Known Member
The limited number of incidents quoted and that I can remeber are insignificant compared to the annual loss of fishing and leisure boats in UK waters, most of whom are lost many miles from normal submarine operating areas. I am not saying it doesn't happen just there are greater risks to be worrying about first
cameronke
Well-Known Member
I was lucky enough to get a shot of HMS Splendid (Swiftsure class SSN) in 1997 in the Clyde
After the Antares disaster, the RN started to run some PR excercise where they would invite some of the fishing boat crews and local papers on board to meet the crews and each could hopefully better understand the other. I was on secondment to the Dunoon Observer /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
We were picked up off Fairlie and sailed round the north of North Cumbrae and then round the south of Bute. We then submerged. As we submerged I was on the attack periscope looking aft and down so I could watch as the boat submerged. Awesome!
They then asked if anyone wanted a shot at "driving". Boys own adventure overload!!!! I took the boat down to about 60 metres and turned through so many degrees. Really dont want to give away any state secrets here but you might hope that on so many millions worth of nuclear attack submarine you could at least afford power stearing but no! so watch it Ivan but our submariners are not only the best (see Tom Clancy's "Submarine") but they have strong arms too!
I remember one of the submariners saying that sailing boats are their greatest fear as they are virtually silent and undetectable.
Cameron
After the Antares disaster, the RN started to run some PR excercise where they would invite some of the fishing boat crews and local papers on board to meet the crews and each could hopefully better understand the other. I was on secondment to the Dunoon Observer /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
We were picked up off Fairlie and sailed round the north of North Cumbrae and then round the south of Bute. We then submerged. As we submerged I was on the attack periscope looking aft and down so I could watch as the boat submerged. Awesome!
They then asked if anyone wanted a shot at "driving". Boys own adventure overload!!!! I took the boat down to about 60 metres and turned through so many degrees. Really dont want to give away any state secrets here but you might hope that on so many millions worth of nuclear attack submarine you could at least afford power stearing but no! so watch it Ivan but our submariners are not only the best (see Tom Clancy's "Submarine") but they have strong arms too!
I remember one of the submariners saying that sailing boats are their greatest fear as they are virtually silent and undetectable.
Cameron
bluebosunsmate
New Member
In submarine exercise areas:
1; ALWAYS HAVE ECHO SOUNDER ON - any decent U/C will pick it up.
2; Motor sailing in poor viz definately a worth while consideration as boats at PD are at a distinct disadvantage.
3; During 80's in Clyde exercise areas F/V used to swarm round boats preparing to dive, they'd shoot knackered nets in the hope of getting their nets fouled for the compensation...
1; ALWAYS HAVE ECHO SOUNDER ON - any decent U/C will pick it up.
2; Motor sailing in poor viz definately a worth while consideration as boats at PD are at a distinct disadvantage.
3; During 80's in Clyde exercise areas F/V used to swarm round boats preparing to dive, they'd shoot knackered nets in the hope of getting their nets fouled for the compensation...
maxi77
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
In submarine exercise areas:
1; ALWAYS HAVE ECHO SOUNDER ON - any decent U/C will pick it up.
2; Motor sailing in poor viz definately a worth while consideration as boats at PD are at a distinct disadvantage.
3; During 80's in Clyde exercise areas F/V used to swarm round boats preparing to dive, they'd shoot knackered nets in the hope of getting their nets fouled for the compensation...
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't think by the 80s there were enough fishing boats in the Clyde to 'swarm'. Certainly in my days in the early 70s playing with torpedos in Inchmarnock water there were only around 5 or 6 regula boats in that area. It was amazing how fast the fleet dindled away when the herring left.
In submarine exercise areas:
1; ALWAYS HAVE ECHO SOUNDER ON - any decent U/C will pick it up.
2; Motor sailing in poor viz definately a worth while consideration as boats at PD are at a distinct disadvantage.
3; During 80's in Clyde exercise areas F/V used to swarm round boats preparing to dive, they'd shoot knackered nets in the hope of getting their nets fouled for the compensation...
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't think by the 80s there were enough fishing boats in the Clyde to 'swarm'. Certainly in my days in the early 70s playing with torpedos in Inchmarnock water there were only around 5 or 6 regula boats in that area. It was amazing how fast the fleet dindled away when the herring left.
ValleyForge
Well-Known Member
[quote
I was on the boat (not submarine) that hit Drum. We were at Periscope depth with the search periscope up. For those that don't know it's about 6 inches thick. Anyway the OOW on the search just did not see Drum, and we put a very large gash in her side. We surfaced as soon as possible and offered assistance to Drum. (At this stage Drum felt that we'd given enough 'assistance'
[/ QUOTE ]
No, sorry, not enough information, we want to know :-
a) What the OOD said
&
b) What your skipper said ...
& I bet it wasn't 'oh cock' .... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
Nice to get the story so many years later !
I must admit I think Drum was very very unlucky, I mean she's not exactly small, like a Hurley 22 or something.
I was on the boat (not submarine) that hit Drum. We were at Periscope depth with the search periscope up. For those that don't know it's about 6 inches thick. Anyway the OOW on the search just did not see Drum, and we put a very large gash in her side. We surfaced as soon as possible and offered assistance to Drum. (At this stage Drum felt that we'd given enough 'assistance'
[/ QUOTE ]
No, sorry, not enough information, we want to know :-
a) What the OOD said
&
b) What your skipper said ...
& I bet it wasn't 'oh cock' .... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
Nice to get the story so many years later !
I must admit I think Drum was very very unlucky, I mean she's not exactly small, like a Hurley 22 or something.
DFB
Well-Known Member
Well the OOW said a very naughty word that rhymes with duck /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
The Skipper rushed out of his cabin and demanded a sitrep (situation report) and the helmsman (known as ColeBag) shouted "ON DEPTH"
After surfacing, the skipper was in comms with Drum and he enquired as to whether we could offer any assistance like a tow or engineers to nip onboard and assist. Drum's skipper, who was understandably a tad miffed replied with "I think you've rendered sufficient assistance, F&%* Off" /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
The Skipper rushed out of his cabin and demanded a sitrep (situation report) and the helmsman (known as ColeBag) shouted "ON DEPTH"
After surfacing, the skipper was in comms with Drum and he enquired as to whether we could offer any assistance like a tow or engineers to nip onboard and assist. Drum's skipper, who was understandably a tad miffed replied with "I think you've rendered sufficient assistance, F&%* Off" /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Submarines!
This sailing season we (myself plus two retired Submariners) found ourselves in the middle of a Perisher exercise, with a big flash-back to times past & my advice is ‘run your engine’.
Although some forumite did day that we apparently now have sensors which can detect a yacht under sail…… but not in my day unless they were transmitting or running some form of machinery.
I'm off to ask the 'sneaky' squad (special fit etc) if we can.
This sailing season we (myself plus two retired Submariners) found ourselves in the middle of a Perisher exercise, with a big flash-back to times past & my advice is ‘run your engine’.
Although some forumite did day that we apparently now have sensors which can detect a yacht under sail…… but not in my day unless they were transmitting or running some form of machinery.
I'm off to ask the 'sneaky' squad (special fit etc) if we can.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
This sailing season we (myself plus two retired Submariners) found ourselves in the middle of a Perisher exercise, with a big flash-back to times past & my advice is ‘run your engine’.
Although some forumite did day that we apparently now have sensors which can detect a yacht under sail…… but not in my day unless they were transmitting or running some form of machinery.
I'm off to ask the 'sneaky' squad (special fit etc) if we can.
It's a special gin sensor...
Al Dickson
Well-Known Member
I remember the Drum incident - it was a long time ago so I might be wrong but I seem to recall she was taking part in a the Blue Water Trophy Race from the Clyde to Scrabster - we were on a Nic 43 and had gone up the inside of Skye (Kyleakin) and she was charging round the outside.
Everyone knew at the time the sub had surfaced somewhat apologetically !
Everyone knew at the time the sub had surfaced somewhat apologetically !
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Thaumaturge
Well-Known Member
What an interesting range of views, theories and perceptions.
Ariadne
Well-Known Member
There were quite a few cases of UK and Irish fishing bots boats being towed backwards at a great rate of knots during the 80's, just look in the 'Fishing News' archives.
There was famous incident when a Northern Irish fishing boat asked if there were any NATO subs in the North Channel after being towed astern for a number of miles. The NATO answer was "No we have no subs in the area". The F.V. then asked in the press who wanted to buy the large lump of USN stamped piece of sonar (or what ever piece of electronics) he had hauled up in his net! Yes, they published a picture of the dome they had in the hold; the USN arrived very quickly with a large amount of cash and a court order to shut him up.
It was all published in the Fishing News which had a campaign to collate incidents and try and get some compensation for the boats that lost gear. NATO subs caught, damaged and sunk a fair few F.Vs in the Irish Sea/North Channel! Sorry, the UK are not quite so innocent as they are making out on here, and the US were a lot worse - as for the Soviet Block, we'll never know?
There's also a very interesting case of a Beam Trawler going down with all hands in the Bristol Channel as well. No public inquirery (sp?), only the RN were allowed to find/raise the boat, no answers, etc. Sub's again were blamed as there was a lot of unusual RN activity, ships running without lights in the area for some reason, CG & DOT didn't seem interested in the accident at the time either; still the Official Secrets Act is there to protect us!
There was famous incident when a Northern Irish fishing boat asked if there were any NATO subs in the North Channel after being towed astern for a number of miles. The NATO answer was "No we have no subs in the area". The F.V. then asked in the press who wanted to buy the large lump of USN stamped piece of sonar (or what ever piece of electronics) he had hauled up in his net! Yes, they published a picture of the dome they had in the hold; the USN arrived very quickly with a large amount of cash and a court order to shut him up.
It was all published in the Fishing News which had a campaign to collate incidents and try and get some compensation for the boats that lost gear. NATO subs caught, damaged and sunk a fair few F.Vs in the Irish Sea/North Channel! Sorry, the UK are not quite so innocent as they are making out on here, and the US were a lot worse - as for the Soviet Block, we'll never know?
There's also a very interesting case of a Beam Trawler going down with all hands in the Bristol Channel as well. No public inquirery (sp?), only the RN were allowed to find/raise the boat, no answers, etc. Sub's again were blamed as there was a lot of unusual RN activity, ships running without lights in the area for some reason, CG & DOT didn't seem interested in the accident at the time either; still the Official Secrets Act is there to protect us!
A1Sailor
...
Particularly the post stating that MOD had denied that Drum had been hit by a submarine!
