Studland MCZ decision coming soon

[oldharry]

DEFRA is expected to announce the 3rd round of MCZ recommendations 'before June 8th'. This announcement has been long delayed because of Brexit, but we will know after 9 years of often bitter arguments whether the controversial Studland Bay recommendation is to be put forward.

Those who have joined the forum in the last couple of years may be unaware of the huge battle that has taken place as conservation groups have tried to get boats banned from this the most popular open sea anchorage in the UK. If thats you, take a look at http://boatownersresponse.org.uk and you will get an idea of the blatant mis and disinformation that has extended as far as the press and the media.

Its significant that the Dorset Wildlife Trust have kept very much out of the arguments, to the extent that NGM recently criticised them for 'not working together' with him. They then rubbed his nose further in it by reporting 'healthy populations of seahorses along the Dorset Coast' just after he had reported that local populations were in decline! This time it was the Oil rig in the Bay that had disturbed them, not our anchors!

Even if DEFRA do bite the bullet, there's no certainty it will become an MCZ until it goes to Minister Gove, probably early next year and we in BORG will continue to do our best to get a realistic and science based decision about our continued use this prime anchorage. In previous rounds, several MCZs were thrown out at this final stage..

Michael Gove is a keen conservationist, but we believe our arguments give us the best chance of ensuring this beautiful and popular Bay remains open to boats. Of course by the time it reaches Goves desk he may have moved on anyway!

In the meantime, the Countryside Alliance backed by a number of other groups have been trying to topple Chris Packham from his perch at the BBC. Following his disgraceful broadcast about the Studland issue some years ago with his comments about Gin and Tnic swilling yachtsmen wrecking the environment, I have a certain sympathy with those who he has treated with similar contempt! Try Googling it, there's pages of arguments, all of which will increase his standing if Beeb continue to back him!

 

[FlyingGoose]

DEFRA is expected to announce the 3rd round of MCZ recommendations 'before June 8th'. This announcement has been long delayed because of Brexit, but we will know after 9 years of often bitter arguments whether the controversial Studland Bay recommendation is to be put forward.

Those who have joined the forum in the last couple of years may be unaware of the huge battle that has taken place as conservation groups have tried to get boats banned from this the most popular open sea anchorage in the UK. If thats you, take a look at http://boatownersresponse.org.uk and you will get an idea of the blatant mis and disinformation that has extended as far as the press and the media.

Its significant that the Dorset Wildlife Trust have kept very much out of the arguments, to the extent that NGM recently criticised them for 'not working together' with him. They then rubbed his nose further in it by reporting 'healthy populations of seahorses along the Dorset Coast' just after he had reported that local populations were in decline! This time it was the Oil rig in the Bay that had disturbed them, not our anchors!

Even if DEFRA do bite the bullet, there's no certainty it will become an MCZ until it goes to Minister Gove, probably early next year and we in BORG will continue to do our best to get a realistic and science based decision about our continued use this prime anchorage. In previous rounds, several MCZs were thrown out at this final stage..

Michael Gove is a keen conservationist, but we believe our arguments give us the best chance of ensuring this beautiful and popular Bay remains open to boats. Of course by the time it reaches Goves desk he may have moved on anyway!

In the meantime, the Countryside Alliance backed by a number of other groups have been trying to topple Chris Packham from his perch at the BBC. Following his disgraceful broadcast about the Studland issue some years ago with his comments about Gin and Tnic swilling yachtsmen wrecking the environment, I have a certain sympathy with those who he has treated with similar contempt! Try Googling it, there's pages of arguments, all of which will increase his standing if Beeb continue to back him!

Good luck in your argument I belvie in these times it will be a hard struggle.
I have to say to try and topple some one from the BBC who is just having a poke of fun because of a comment some years ago is rather sad people not got better things to do :encouragement:
And to be treated with contempt , this is a little on the hard side , I ve been called worse at my Daughters School,
I will always challenge thsoe that seem to thing their right for the sake of their own ego , how old are these people , oh I bet you I can guess
Alas I wait for the bashing

 

[Blue Sunray]

Good luck in your argument I belvie in these times it will be a hard struggle.
I have to say to try and topple some one from the BBC who is just having a poke of fun because of a comment some years ago is rather sad people not got better things to do :encouragement:
And to be treated with contempt , this is a little on the hard side , I ve been called worse at my Daughters School,
I will always challenge thsoe that seem to thing their right for the sake of their own ego , how old are these people , oh I bet you I can guess
Alas I wait for the bashing

Try again in English?

 

[rotrax]

I think Flying goose might be previously known by the forum name moomba.

He has problems in written communication, but his views are no less valid because of that.

Even though I dont share them................................

Chris Packham and NGM are a disgrace to conservation.

IMHO, of course!

 

[oldharry]

Chris Packham and NGM are a disgrace to conservation.

IMHO, of course!

++1. Many of us would say that NGM and his mates, supported by Packham caused most the upset over Studland, and that we would have reached agreement on the MCZ many years ago but for their interference. Every time we have got anywhere near agreement about how boats should use the Bay, NGM has put the boot in with another round of Press and Media rubbish making further discussion impossible.

It reflects very poorly on conservationism that we have had to argue this one at all. Clear, objective science based reasoning and understanding is the only hope for effective conservation, and it has been significantly lacking in the arguments over Studland. Agenda lead reporting has no place in effective conservation management and leads to weak and ineffective measures which fail to address the real issues.

Packham is not being clobbered for one simple comment about boats, but for a sustained campaign which Countryside Alliance and a great many others claim has done significant damage both to wildlife and agriculture in recent years. BORG takes no part in that even though we have been targeted as part of a much wider campaign.

 

[FlyingGoose]

I think Flying goose might be previously known by the forum name moomba.

He has problems in written communication, but his views are no less valid because of that.

Even though I dont share them................................

Chris Packham and NGM are a disgrace to conservation.

IMHO, of course!

What is a moomba were is Studland Bay and why are you all getting worked up about it.
Rotax you should only acuse if you have facts others wise it seems strange that you like to wade in with nothing constructive to say,
If name calling gets your generation upset them it shows the level of a person you are,
If old harry wants to post his thoughs on this forum he has to respect other peoples opinion on it, and be challenged on these opinions and like anyone, be respectful in returning those comments , in which he has , what seems to be your issue.!!!
Mr Paxman has done wonders for conservation through the UK and if there is a local issue in Studland bay then it is for Studland bay and the local community to sort out , not a witch hunt against a man who merly made some silly comments.
Life is far to short to be accsuisng people , name calling them or trying to destroy their career because you just dont like what they said , this country is born on free Speech.
I am Dyslexic I have spelling issues would you like me to aplogise to you Rotrax

 

[JumbleDuck]

In the meantime, the Countryside Alliance backed by a number of other groups have been trying to topple Chris Packham from his perch at the BBC.

I doubt it will do any good. Too many high-ups at the BBC are betting their careers on Chris Packham taking over from David Attenborough.

 

[Seajet]

I am in a position to know Old Harry is speaking great sense, with a huge amount of scientific backing - to BORG themselves.

As for Packham, he's a disgrace to true conservation for being taken in by SHT's false propaganda without him and the BBC checking first.

I'm still wondering why Fraud isn't being mentioned re taking public donations on the false pretence Studlands' Seahorses are unique and in danger...

 

[oldharry]

Where is Studland Bay? Its an incredibly beautiful spot just South of Poole Harbour, and by far the top tourist spot in the isle of Purbeck. It has been a favourite anchorage for generations of boaters, arguably since Og the caveman discovered that he could tie a rock to a bit of rope and stop his dugout from drifting off the best fishing spots! Nowadays on a good Bank Holiday there may be as many as 350 boats anchored there at any one time, but with a considerable amount of coming and going, daily boat numbers could be in the 1000's on a good weekend. Over a million cars use the National Trust Car Parks there, too.

Why are we getting worked up about it? Because a small group of ambitious conservationists have been working to prevent boats using the Bay. There is a huge eelgrass bed there, one of the largest in UK. Very intermittently, both species of UK seahorse have been sighted there. This has translated in the imagination of the Sea Horse trust into it being 'the most important site for seahorses in Europe', and they claim boats are destroying the eelgrass habitat. See our website: http://boatownersresponse.org.uk/why-studland-bay/ which sums it up, with links for further reading.

 

[Boathook]

Studland bay is also a very sheltered anchorage giving shelter from nearly the SE round to NW winds via the SW. A lot of boats use it on passage, and also if you are caught out in strong winds. Poole is very close by but can be difficult to enter due to all the land lights blocking the bouys out at night.

 

[rotrax]

What is a moomba were is Studland Bay and why are you all getting worked up about it.
Rotax you should only acuse if you have facts others wise it seems strange that you like to wade in with nothing constructive to say,
If name calling gets your generation upset them it shows the level of a person you are,
If old harry wants to post his thoughs on this forum he has to respect other peoples opinion on it, and be challenged on these opinions and like anyone, be respectful in returning those comments , in which he has , what seems to be your issue.!!!
Mr Paxman has done wonders for conservation through the UK and if there is a local issue in Studland bay then it is for Studland bay and the local community to sort out , not a witch hunt against a man who merly made some silly comments.
Life is far to short to be accsuisng people , name calling them or trying to destroy their career because you just dont like what they said , this country is born on free Speech.
I am Dyslexic I have spelling issues would you like me to aplogise to you Rotrax

No, and I thought my post was sympathetic to your problem.

If you did not previously post here as moomba, apologies.

He suffered similar communication problems.

As I said, you views are equally valid however you manage to exress them.

No name calling meant or implied.

No apology required.

Who is Mr Paxman?

Perhaps you mean Packham.

That well known disgrace to conservation, a view shared by many, and the numbers are increasing daily.

 

[Blue Sunray]

No, and I thought my post was sympathetic to your problem.

If you did not previously post here as moomba, apologies.

He suffered similar communication problems.

As I said, you views are equally valid however you manage to exress them.

No name calling meant or implied.

No apology required.

Who is Mr Paxman?

Perhaps you mean Packham.

That well known disgrace to conservation, a view shared by many, and the numbers are increasing daily.

I would forcefully contend that Moomba/Goose's opinion is by no means equally valid and that the contention that all options are equally valid is fatuous nonsense. This was well summed up by Prof Brian Cox.

“The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

and Douglas Adams

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."

 

[Seajet]

I'm not so sure about Brian ' poser nice boy ' Cox, - after all he says he admires ' Space 1999 ' - while I love most of Gerry Andersons' creations I'm not too sure about the laws of physics re this series

Dumping lots of nuclear waste on the moon, what could possibly go wrong ?

Dunno about the Eagle transporter keeping up as the moon heads for somewhere nicer, Itchenor maybe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBtLqR5Lo7M

-full episode...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BXaGEuqxo



But I'd NEVER argue with Douglas Adams !

 

[rotrax]

But I'd NEVER argue with Douglas Adams !

Quite right-he hit my buttons every time.

I-and my eldest son-both really like the bit when the Philosophers are on strike and waving signs stating:-

"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty"

Bit like Brexit really.

OOPS! Wrong forum.............................

 

[rotrax]

I would forcefully contend that Moomba/Goose's opinion is by no means equally valid and that the contention that all options are equally valid is fatuous nonsense. This was well summed up by Prof Brian Cox.

“The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

and Douglas Adams

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."

A lot of sound common sense there.

I stand corrected, and humbled.

 

[Blue Sunray]

A lot of sound common sense there.

I stand corrected, and humbled.

The answer, of course, is 42.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I would forcefully contend that Moomba/Goose's opinion is by no means equally valid and that the contention that all options are equally valid is fatuous nonsense. This was well summed up by Prof Brian Cox.

“The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

and Douglas Adams

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."

All opinions are equal. Not all opinions are correct, which is a very different thing. In same places and times, it's inappropriate to express and opinion but I would struggle to see an Internet forum as one of them. The trouble with with making fun of the demonstrably nonsense opinions is that they may be yours.

If something is "well supported in logic" then it is not an opinion, it is a logical argument.

 

[GrahamD]

All opinions are equal. Not all opinions are correct, which is a very different thing. In same places and times, it's inappropriate to express and opinion but I would struggle to see an Internet forum as one of them. The trouble with with making fun of the demonstrably nonsense opinions is that they may be yours.

If something is "well supported in logic" then it is not an opinion, it is a logical argument.

An opinion usually comes about through a logical process; a belief is less supported by logic.

 

[oldharry]

If old harry wants to post his thoughs on this forum he has to respect other peoples opinion on it, and be challenged on these opinions and like anyone, be respectful in returning those comments , in which he has , what seems to be your issue.!!!

Life is far to short to be accsuisng people , name calling them or trying to destroy their career because you just dont like what they said , this country is born on free Speech.

We can all hold and express opinions. That is what free speech is about. But I in no way have to have respect for those opinions. Respect is earned, it does not come as a right.

Some of the opinions being claimed as 'fact' in the Studland Bay debate do not deserve respect. And respect for those who express these views is not on the agenda either, for very good reasons! Bully boy tactics from day one by some conservation parties have left respect way behind, though they still try to demand it in the name of their pet causes.

 

[Seajet]

+1 for Old Harry,

if people knew the ' Bully Boy ' tactics he's referring to - including severe violence and threatening messages to women residents of Studland, police involved - you might be horrified.