STUDLAND - How much do they want???

[Seajet]

Banger & all, you said it !

There are various addresses to contact in recent posts, here and on the 'Look Out Here Comes The MMO' thread, which also has the latest reply I got from the RYA.

I'd be keen to hear if ANYONE has had any luck leaving comments ( sorry, 'inputting data' ) on the Finding Sanctuary Interactive Map ?

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

What you need to know about GRASS...

No, it's not Reefer Madness...but the following has the facts on Eelgrass, the driving factor for the threat to our ability to anchor in Studland and other anchorages being lined up to be marked Conservancy Areas. It was prepared as part of a conservancy movement in San Juan to explain the import of eelgrass:

http://www.sanjuans.org/pdf_document/eelgrass_poster.pdf

Please note that threats to eelgrass include oil spills, thermal pollution from power plants, human construction projects, etc. NOT ONCE is boating or anchoring mentioned.

Nor is it mentioned in the pamphlet for conservancy in Puget Sound:
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/pugetsound/species/eelgrass.html

Just an interesting observation...

 

[Seajet]

Finding Sanctuary 'Interactive map'

I have just tried the Finding Sanctuary 'Interactive Map' again, it's supposed to be the method of putting views across.

www.mczmapping.org

- you need to register username & password, select the type of interest - in my / our case 'Recreational & Leisure', then one can use the search bar, for instance 'studland' - enter - brings up Studland Bay.

Then select i for interest, then at the top right 'edit details', and a box to type in comments - or in F.S. Speak 'input data', appears.

Good luck with this, just as last week when I tried several times, it comes up with a big red page reading 'Server Error'.

This is supposed to be the primary method of receiving the views of anyone affected by MCZ's !

Not that you'd know that from the home page...

BTW don't select 'Mapping Exercise' as that's just a posed group shot for their ego's benefit.

It's hardly surprising this organisation doesn't know about boat users; they have none to listen to on their committee, ( see the composition of that in earlier posts ) and it's not possible to use the wonder-map; which incidentally the RYA direct people to; when I mentioned this to Caroline Price of the RYA she was quite concerned about this and said she would raise the matter.

It still hasn't been fixed though...

As mentioned before, I'd love to hear from ANYONE who's been able to put their views across using this map ?

 

[FB122]

French Type

Bonjour ,
Le Ice Age returnuth ! Climate Cooling ? thats the catch phrase for 2011 , We've all got to increase our carbon footprint otherwise the North Pole will move south to Milton Keynes and the IOW will become Bear Island .
This thing about Finding Sanctuary , over here they'd get all the Fishermen Associations together and work out the areas that need to be safe guarded , why can't this be done in the UK instead of all these conservationists and enviromental types getting preference over the people who use the sea?
I still can't understand why Studland Bay is being targeted by these people .What about the rest of the British Coastline ? Why are the Studland Bay users being cast as THE NASTIES and no one else round the coast ?
Someone somewhere has got big plans for this unspoilt bay .
Viva La Bateaux !

 

[Seajet]

FB122,

I'm sorry to tell you the rest of the UK coastline IS under threat too !

There are proposed MCZ's all around Wales & Scotland too ( Ireland are stuck with it as well, a seperate scheme ) - it's just that the Sea Horse Trust, Seagrass Trust and the diving fraternity have zeroed in on Studland Bay to suit their own agendas, which seem amazingly similar to empire building and commercial interests.

The other schemes can be seen if one can spare the time on the site

www.mczmapping.org

Once registered you'll have to zoom in on each bit though, they seem reluctant to show a pic' of the UK with zones all over the place; maybe that's not such good PR.

When talking this over with Caroline Price of the RYA, she mentioned that this is a Euro Directive affecting all of Euro Land; my first response to that was "I bet the French don't allow the loss of their anchorages" but I didn't get a reply, quite genuinely my phone was playing up, necessitating a call back.

Studland, being the most popular small boat anchorage in the UK, vital for boats travelling along the coast and cross-channel in that part, as well as being a scenic place to stop has become something of a 'celebrity case'.

I hope you have read a good percentage of the previous posts on this and the 'Look out the MMO Is Coming' and 'Solent Recreational Disturbance Studland To Pagham' threads...it must indeed be amazing viewed from France that this could even be tried, but it's deadly serious...

 

[oldharry]

Seajet is quite right. The EU has demanded that the UK designate 30% of its coastline as Marine Conservation Zones. Like good little boys the Govt has knuckled under, set up a new department to do it. It must already be costing millions - conservation is clearly more important than hospitals, schools, further education etc. According to RYA thought the cost of NOT doing it would be even higher in 'fines'. Yes, really!

So what did the newly appointed regional bodies do? Think - what needs conservation. Obvious: Ask the conservationists, and handed the whole thing to them on a plate.

What a field day for them! And of course, conservationists dont want to ask those nasty rich yottie types, so somehow 'recreational interests' didnt extend to boat owners except in the most general sense.

There are various types of MCZ being proposed. The most common will be to conserve the seabed. Thats not a problem unless you need to stop your boat. I dont think many conservationists realise we can just put the brakes on when we need to stop.

But it may not stop there. The legislation allows for a complete ban on any use where 'conservation needs' are shown to require complete non-disturbance of a site. These 'benchmark sites' as they are called call for an entirely natural environment, without any human influence whatsoever. So I cant see them allowing even kayaks and sailing craft in, let alone the odd larger powered or saily boat with their nasty polluting diesels.

This could conceivably even happen in Studland: the SHT expert claimed that Eelgrass damage was done not just by anchoring, but by propwash, particularly from larger Mobos starting up, and disturbing the 'rhizome mat' (root layer). I had not previously heard them taking that particular line, but if they decided to elevate Studland to Benchmark status, you might find even the kids are not allowed to paddle or swim from the beach for fear of upsetting the MCZ. I kid you not - it COULD happen if we dont get our side of the argument in pronto. Hence the arrival of the BORG.

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

OK, I cannot wait to do this...

Just to let you know that things are happening....

www.boatownersresponsegroup.com


Still in development, and still awaiting initial feedback from oldharry and Seajet, so I am sure it will change. I have content to still put up, but ironically I am waiting for clearance from YBW to replicate some of the things we have said here before I post - things like copywrite and stuff to worry about. So if Dan gets back to me...

But it IS coming, and soon.

Cheers,
SailBob

 

[john_morris_uk]

Darts farm shop is VERY close to where I live - and I happen to know the Dart brothers reasonably well; we frequently shop/eat there and although its not cheap, but the products are high quality and they have just won a BBC Food award. I know Michael Dart better than the other brothers, and I would be interested to know why their outlet is the holding address for the 'Finding Sanctuary Communications Officer'.

Anyway, notwithstanding the above, if anyone would like me to call in and engage Joana Smith in conversation on the seemingly fixed agenda of Finding Sanctuary I will be happy to do so. Let me have any questions you want raised and I will call in during the next few days.

 

[Searush]

Just to let you know that things are happening....

www.boatownersresponsegroup.com


Still in development, and still awaiting initial feedback from oldharry and Seajet, so I am sure it will change. I have content to still put up, but ironically I am waiting for clearance from YBW to replicate some of the things we have said here before I post - things like copywrite and stuff to worry about. So if Dan gets back to me...

But it IS coming, and soon.

Cheers,
SailBob

You have fulll permission to use any material in the posts I put up - including the "muppet" ones. ButIi doubt they will help much. Home page looks good on the site, well done & thanks.

 

[H2O]

I suggest people also read the latest in the local Echo,
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne..._ray_discovered_in_Swanage_and_Studland_bays/

 

[jhr]

I have edited this post because I understand that by highlighting the relationship between someone mentioned in the article in the Echo, and a certain other interested party, I may get Dannified (or whatever the word is).

Discretion is the better part of valour, I guess.

 

[RobbieW]

Using MCZInteractive

I have succesfully logged some data on the MCZ Interactive mapping site, having created the required userid. I created 3 spot entries for Studland, Newtown & Worbarrow plus a generic rectangle covering the coast from E of Chichester to the Scillies, representing the area mostly, but not exclusively, covered over the last 10 years or so.

What I'm now curious about is the way that data is presented. The picture you see if you select Stakeholders - South West, Recreation & Leisure, Sailing is curious as much for the lack of data in some areas as anything else. There are large areas of no reported activity that dont tally with experience - around the entrance to the Dart, for example, shows no recorded activity! It seems more like a record of passage activity originating from Salcombe to Falmouth but missing Plymouth. If you try select any data for South East nothing is shown, presumably due to the legend (awaiting data) by each selection.

As part of the registration process requires that you enter a home address, I wonder if my data is being counted as part of the South East input (I live close to Hamble)? It doesnt appear to have been aggregated into the South West data yet, if only because my spot entries for Studland and Worbarrow have not extended the usage lines shown on the map - though we dont know what trigger levels are required to do this.

Good work to those getting organised on presenting the leisure sailors view on these proposals, I will be joining you.

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

@LittleNutshell

Welcome to the fight!

With regards to the map not showing data, I do not know if this is related to the write-ups on their web site that acknowledges that data from certain areas is still not updated. I highly suspect that they have LOTS and LOTS of data inconsistencies, that someone that works in IT (like me) might call into question if given a chance to question them in public. I think they have strong problems with data accuracy and significance, that are challengeable, perhaps even in court should the UK be basing major decisions on it.

I see that I have a PM, I will read it and respond after I post this...

Cheers,
SBSP

 

[Finding Sanctuary]

Finding Sanctuary response to queries re: Studland Bay building block

Following several recent enquiries from sailors about the building block enpcompassing Studland Bay that is currently being discused by the Finding Sanctuary Steering Group, I hope the following answers some of your queries.

Recreational boat users are represented at both local and regional levels of the Finding Sanctuary project. The Project Board does not have any involvement in the suggestion of Marine Conservation Zones (MCZs). Their role is to oversee the management of the project. The Steering Group is the regional stakeholder group that is making suggestions for MCZs. There are also two subgroups of the Steering Group: the inshore and offshore working group, who have been tasked with carrying out the detailed planning work on behalf of the wider Steering Group. Peter Bartlett from the Royal Yachting Association (RYA) sits on both the Steering Group and the Inshore Working Group. Others on the Steering Group that represent sectors that have or potentially have an interest in boat use and/or anchoring in Studland are angling, canoe/kayaking, charter boats, diving and waterskiing. Boating in Studland is well represented at the Dorset Local Group level with both a Studland Parish Council representative, Andrew Parsons, and a RYA representative, David Dunn. The RYA has provided the following statement regarding their involvement in the project:

‘The RYA has been working with Finding Sanctuary for 14 months now to make sure the interests of recreational boaters are represented in all discussions around the MCZ process in the south west. Through our position on the regional stakeholder group we have been acting as a conduit through which individual boaters can make sure their concerns and viewpoints are being fed into the decision making process. As we get into the more detailed discussions leading to decisions on the location of potential MCZs and any associated management measures, we will continue to represent recreational boaters, in particular emphasising the importance of rights of navigation and access to safe anchorages.’

At present Studland is in a building block iA13 (previously iA11). The building block covers an area (very roughly) from just west of Christchurch Ledge to Peveril Point. It is important to point out that the area is currently being discussed as a potential Marine Conservation Zone, but the Steering Group will not be finalising their suggestions until June 2011. The Steering Group has not suggested that the building block will become a no anchor zone. It is possible that MCZ designation could result in some restrictions on anchoring in parts of the site, but only if it is deemed that this activity is damaging the species or habitat that the site would be designated to protect. The Steering Group, as part of their recommendations will be stating what activities they agree should and should not occur within each MCZ proposed. The Group’s support of the final network of sites designated is dependent on these assumptions being followed through in the management measures that are applied to each site. I would like to assure you that whatever restrictions eventually come into effect, anchoring for reasons of safe navigation of vessels will not be prevented.

The boating sector representatives on the Steering Group and Dorset Local Groups are aware that this building block is contentious for recreational boaters and will be bringing your views to the table in their planning. If you have particular concerns or views about any building block you should send them to your representative on the Steering Group. This can be done by e-mailing steeringgroup@finding-sanctuary.org and the message will be sent to the relevant representative.

The interactive map was designed to collect data from seausers about their activities in order to feed into the planning of MCZs. Our data collection period ended on the 31st October so we are not collecting any further activity data from stakeholders. This date was publicised on this forum. If anyone wanted to input their data and has not been able to do so due to technical problems they have experienced, they should contact us on 01392 878 327 an we will try to ensure the data can still be incorporated.

I would also like to direct you to some relevant pages on our website which you might find useful:

From the Finding Sanctuary homepage you can access our Short Guide to Finding Sanctuary which explains the roles of the different stakeholder groups and how they work together. It also provides an update on the progress made to date.

The Steering Group page gives details of all the stakeholder representatives that sit on the Steering Group and also provides a list of Working Group members.

We are not able to check these forums regularly so if you have outstanding queries please either contact your Steering Group representative on the email address provided above or you can email us on info@finding-sanctuary.org.

Thanks,

Joana
Finding Sanctuary

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Yesterday, 17:45
Finding Sanctuary .

That produced a resounding silence.

 

[ChrisE]

Yesterday, 17:45
Finding Sanctuary .

That produced a resounding silence.

OK, I'll bite.

Clearly, whether we raggies/stinkies like it or not, there is more than one set of users of the Studland, each has its own agenda and none have right of dominion over the other which is how I read the FS response.

 

[fireball]

it would've helped if the website link was correct ....

www.finding-sanctury.org .... not the uk bit on the end ...

All this leaves me a little bemused ... one side seems to say there is mass distruction of habitat and we must stop it now (whilst handling and tagging the delicate creatures they're trying to protect) whilst the otherside say that the habitat has significantly increased and whilst they're happy to take environmental considerations onboard they do not welcome an all out ban in the area ..

I do not for one moment suggest that we say 'stuff it' to the seahorses, nor do I suggest that we refuse to study them and their habitat - but I do disagree with the seemingly millitant way the 'conservationists' behave - to the extreme detriment to their fellow humans.
By all means - consider areas for protection zones - I am all for it - if it can be shown that the area is already being damaged beyond acceptibiliy.

Nature has a curious way of always taking back what she wants ... when she wants ... IMHO Seahorses in Studland will continue to thrive (as they apparently have for at least 50 years) along with the seagrass with or without a MCZ ...

 

[jhr]

Slightly off tangent, and I am not sure if there are any seahorses involved, but I believe there has been a voluntary no-anchoring zone in an eelgrass bed on the Helford River for a few years, now.

Does anybody know what impact it's had, and/or whether the eelgrass is surviving, flourishing or expanding?

 

[Plomong]

To summarise the Finding Sanctuary post, if I may be so presumptious:

Recreational boat users are represented at both local and regional levels of the Finding Sanctuary project. The Project Board does not have any involvement in the suggestion of Marine Conservation Zones (MCZs). Their role is to oversee the management of the project. The Steering Group is the regional stakeholder group that is making suggestions for MCZs. There are also two subgroups of the Steering Group: the inshore and offshore working group, who have been tasked with carrying out the detailed planning work on behalf of the wider Steering Group. Peter Bartlett from the Royal Yachting Association (RYA) sits on both the Steering Group and the Inshore Working Group. Others on the Steering Group that represent sectors that have or potentially have an interest in boat use and/or anchoring in Studland are angling, canoe/kayaking, charter boats, diving and waterskiing. Boating in Studland is well represented at the Dorset Local Group level with both a Studland Parish Council representative, Andrew Parsons, and a RYA representative, David Dunn. The RYA has provided the following statement regarding their involvement in the project:

‘The RYA has been working with Finding Sanctuary for 14 months now to make sure the interests of recreational boaters are represented in all discussions around the MCZ process in the south west. Through our position on the regional stakeholder group we have been acting as a conduit through which individual boaters can make sure their concerns and viewpoints are being fed into the decision making process. As we get into the more detailed discussions leading to decisions on the location of potential MCZs and any associated management measures, we will continue to represent recreational boaters, in particular emphasising the importance of rights of navigation and access to safe anchorages.’
Finding Sanctuary

Boaters are represented somewhere in this morass of steering groups, project managements groups, recommenders, studiers, pressure groups, etc etc by the RYA.

At present Studland is in a building block iA13 (previously iA11). The building block covers an area (very roughly) from just west of Christchurch Ledge to Peveril Point. It is important to point out that the area is currently being discussed as a potential Marine Conservation Zone, but the Steering Group will not be finalising their suggestions until June 2011. The Steering Group has not suggested that the building block will become a no anchor zone. It is possible that MCZ designation could result in some restrictions on anchoring in parts of the site, but only if it is deemed that this activity is damaging the species or habitat that the site would be designated to protect. The Steering Group, as part of their recommendations will be stating what activities they agree should and should not occur within each MCZ proposed. The Group’s support of the final network of sites designated is dependent on these assumptions being followed through in the management measures that are applied to each site. I would like to assure you that whatever restrictions eventually come into effect, anchoring for reasons of safe navigation of vessels will not be prevented.

Finding Sanctuary

We have marked off extensive blocks of coastline as suggested areas within which one or more MCZs will be established, but it is not known yet where these will be nor the extent of them, nor the specific restrictions to be imposed on each.

However, we want your reactions to our proposals.

Comment from Plomong: To get reactions, they should make concrete proposals first, I would have thought.

The boating sector representatives on the Steering Group and Dorset Local Groups are aware that this building block is contentious for recreational boaters and will be bringing your views to the table in their planning. If you have particular concerns or views about any building block you should send them to your representative on the Steering Group. This can be done by e-mailing steeringgroup@finding-sanctuary.org and the message will be sent to the relevant representative.
Finding Sanctuary

Sounds reasonable -- but see below.

The interactive map was designed to collect data from seausers about their activities in order to feed into the planning of MCZs. Our data collection period ended on the 31st October so we are not collecting any further activity data from stakeholders. This date was publicised on this forum. If anyone wanted to input their data and has not been able to do so due to technical problems they have experienced, they should contact us on 01392 878 327 an we will try to ensure the data can still be incorporated.
Finding Sanctuary

The interactive map that doesn't permit entry of comments !!!!

Data collection period over --- so you are stuffed -- too bad, so sad.

You were told so, so you cannot complain.

If you had technical problems in entering data, contact us and we will see if we can be so accomodating as to be able to add your input now, even though it is late.


Bl00dy hell -- and these people are paid out of general taxation !!!

They've cocked up the first several phases of their work in several major aspects, but still the train moves forwards at high speed, regardless.

It's time to start more serious action:
- Through the RYA.
- Through your MPs and local representatives.
- Through your yacht clubs.
- Etc.

Whatever you do, don't just stand still -- otherwise you will get what the environmental and other pressure groups want, and not what is reasonable and acceptable for other users.

You have been forewarned.

Plomong

 

[Robin]

Sooner or later your will gets worn down by the Sir Humphrey approach of these people.