Studland Bay - what you need to do

[oldharry]

MMO have the unenviable task of making something unworkable, work. And on a minimal budget. On the one hand they have the increasingly powerful conservation lobby headed by people like Packham, NGM, and Humble who have the Media on their side as they provide plenty of sensational rubbish. On the other hand they have to deal with the practicalities and try to work with the people affected. The end result is bound to be a compromise which satisfies nobody.

 

[colhel]

Do you think NGM, Packham etc are satisfied with this outcome? Do you think they will keep pressing for further restrictions?

 

[Concerto]

Do you think NGM, Packham etc are satisfied with this outcome? Do you think they will keep pressing for further restrictions?

We all know the answer to that, they will never be satisfied until gthey have driven all the boats away. They do not understand the word compromise. Harold Wilson back in the 1960's said, the greatest threat to democracy was the single issue pressure group. What are NGM, Packham, etc? A single issue pressure group.

 

[doug748]

Do you think NGM, Packham etc are satisfied with this outcome? Do you think they will keep pressing for further restrictions?

Unfortunately, as no recognizable science has been used to reach the present conclusions, we all suspect that there will be no coherent benchmarks taken either, nor any real testing of the results.

It will be deemed a huge success, for no particular reason, seahorses will abound at least in the imagination of some. There will be media rejoicing.

Next someone will say. We have luxurious crops over here, in the area we saved from destruction (which of course there always was because that is where the grass want to grow)
But over there....... where the rich people moor their boats, there is still no seagrass.
The problem is obvious, and the solution.

It's all a bit sad, the demise of proper scientific scepticism. It started with crappy French philosophy and went down the pan thereafter, subject after subject.

Sorry to put a downer on things ?

.

 

[oldharry]

Unfortunately, as no recognizable science has been used to reach the present conclusions, we all suspect that there will be no coherent benchmarks taken either, nor any real testing of the results.

It will be deemed a huge success, for no particular reason, seahorses will abound at least in the imagination of some. There will be media rejoicing.

Next someone will say. We have luxurious crops over here, in the area we saved from destruction (which of course there always was because that is where the grass want to grow)
But over there....... where the rich people moor their boats, there is still no seagrass.
The problem is obvious, and the solution.

It's all a bit sad, the demise of proper scientific scepticism. It started with crappy French philosophy and went down the pan thereafter, subject after subject.

Sorry to put a downer on things ?

.

Oh, I couldn't agree more! With law firmly based on opinion and not fact now having been established it's carte blanche for any sort of restriction on the say so of any fake expert in the bright ideas department. No need for proof now. I feel very gloomy for the future of our sport, except in a carefully regimented, controlled way. We talk now of Marina-hopping: that's all that will be allowed in the foreseeable future, along with carefully designated routes avoiding whichever shrimp or seaweed somebody has made a name for himself protecting. I heard recently even of a call for a ban on the cruel and damaging kiddies pastime of crabbing, because it upsets the crabs.... I'm not kidding you!

 

[chubby]

So can we live with the proposals? I would often anchor off middle beach in preference to anchoring under the cliffs anyway so could anchor north of 50 39.0 N or pick up a buoy if suitable: that choice of buoy vs anchor is similar to the choice in say Newtown or Beaulieu. There is the argument of knowing your own ground tackle but I am thinking of normal summer weather not riding out a full gale. I sail for relaxation not confrontation and hope that if a voluntary zone is observed sufficiently there wont be enforcement, hopefully peer pressure will encourage boats to avoid the VNAZ. let`s hope it is a few years before MMO can assess the effects.

 

[sfellows]

I suspect that the voluntary "no anchoring", even if adhered to, will not result in anything changing (seagrass/seahorses). This will then be used by those who want the ban to say "we told you so, we need a bigger "no anchoring" area in Studland because the Seagrass and Seahorses aren't changing". And it will go on like this until the whole of Studland Bay will be a no anchoring zone.

But then I'm a cynic.

 

[Gary Fox]

Unfortunately, as no recognizable science has been used to reach the present conclusions, we all suspect that there will be no coherent benchmarks taken either, nor any real testing of the results.

It will be deemed a huge success, for no particular reason, seahorses will abound at least in the imagination of some. There will be media rejoicing.

Next someone will say. We have luxurious crops over here, in the area we saved from destruction (which of course there always was because that is where the grass want to grow)
But over there....... where the rich people moor their boats, there is still no seagrass.
The problem is obvious, and the solution.

It's all a bit sad, the demise of proper scientific scepticism. It started with crappy French philosophy and went down the pan thereafter, subject after subject.

Sorry to put a downer on things ?

.

Spot on

 

[oldharry]

NGM wants to install all 100 moorings the MMO have said they will give permission for. He forgot that that includes existing privately owned moorings. He has ten so far, and apparently another 7 promised at £2k a go. So he is embarking on a < £150k project on our behalf. Total donations in the last month? £1700. he wants to set up a Not for Profit Company to look after it. he has invited various organisations to take part, but guess what: apart from Boatfolk who sponsored the original ten, all the rest are conservationists..... And I wonder who will be in the Chair?

 

[ryanroberts]

I will continue to anchor until they have the ability to prosecute. This whole affair is a remarkable insight into how government actually works in practice nowadays, so much actual policy is in the hands of professional activists astroturfing civil society and compliant civil servants.

 

[oldharry]

I will continue to anchor until they have the ability to prosecute. This whole affair is a remarkable insight into how government actually works in practice nowadays, so much actual policy is in the hands of professional activists astroturfing civil society and compliant civil servants.

Trouble is that simply 'proves' that boat owners are not to be relied on to help with conservation, and just gives more ammunition to the conservation lobby to close yet more 'vulnerable' coastline. I agree with your assessment entirely. All we ever asked for was clear scientific evidence, which we knew they would never provide because we still have clear evidence that Zostera marina is not vunerable to anchoring impacts . All we ever had was smoke and mirrors, which are now enshrined in law. As I said elsewhere it bodes ill for the future enjoyment of our sport.

As for the RYA sell out, putting conservation ahead of Members interests.....

 

[nortada]

Trouble is that simply 'proves' that boat owners are not to be relied on to help with conservation, and just gives more ammunition to the conservation lobby to close yet more 'vulnerable' coastline. I agree with your assessment entirely. All we ever asked for was clear scientific evidence, which we knew they would never provide because we still have clear evidence that Zostera marina is not vunerable to anchoring impacts . All we ever had was smoke and mirrors, which are now enshrined in law. As I said elsewhere it bodes ill for the future enjoyment of our sport.

As for the RYA sell out, putting conservation ahead of Members interests.....

The RYA attitude on establishing an inquiry into orca situation in Iberia is proof positive that they put other issues ahead of Member’s interests.?

 

[rotrax]

The RYA ia a NATIONAL association, dealing with issues nationally and as we know mostly training and competitive sailing. For my cruising interests they are as much use as a chocolate teapot. I stopped our membership and joined the CA which has proved far more relevant.
The Orca situation is of International significance. IMHO, the RYA is not the organisation to deal with it.
Plus, exept for issuing advice and warnings, what can any organisation do about one of the oceans top predators attacking boats when they are a species enjoying International protection?

 

[TNLI]

I will continue to anchor until they have the ability to prosecute. This whole affair is a remarkable insight into how government actually works in practice nowadays, so much actual policy is in the hands of professional activists astroturfing civil society and compliant civil servants.

Ummm, Errr, not the best example of environmentally correct attitude towars horse fans.

The answer is simple, beach your boat, It's one of the reasons why I bought an old lifeboat to rebuild. Also my draught of 3ft 6inches fully leaded, should allow me to get close enough to avoid the eel grass the horses eat.

Seahorses Are One of the Deadliest Creatures in the Sea. Yes, Seahorses. (treehugger.com)

 

[oldharry]

Ummm, Errr, not the best example of environmentally correct attitude towars horse fans.

The answer is simple, beach your boat, It's one of the reasons why I bought an old lifeboat to rebuild. Also my draught of 3ft 6inches fully leaded, should allow me to get close enough to avoid the eel grass the horses eat.

Seahorses Are One of the Deadliest Creatures in the Sea. Yes, Seahorses. (treehugger.com)

Yup, those cute cuddly little beasties are, on their scale one of the most dangerous stealth predators going. Colour changing to match perfectly their surroundings (oh, but that's how the poor little things protect themselves from predators.... !) They can stun or kill prey at a remarkable range firing 'bullets' of water from the snout. Fascinating? Yes. Deadly? Absolutely!

Disney has a lot to answer for.....

 

[Seven Spades]

And what of heavier boats, what are we supposed to do? None of the moorings installed so far will hold any decently sized boat.

 

[TNLI]

And what of heavier boats, what are we supposed to do? None of the moorings installed so far will hold any decently sized boat.

Swap your boat for something a tad or even three tads lighter ??

Umm, is there some kind of number painted on the mooring that defines its weight limit ??

 

[st599]

Swap your boat for something a tad or even three tads lighter ??

Umm, is there some kind of number painted on the mooring that defines its weight limit ??

 

[Robin]

Swap your boat for something a tad or even three tads lighter ??

Umm, is there some kind of number painted on the mooring that defines its weight limit ??

Perhaps there is an 'on duty' seahorse that says 'oi mate too big go away'

 

[Robin]

As I said in an earlier reply, what is the '10 tonnes max ' referred to, is it registered tonnage, rated tonnage or actual displacement. All are significantly different Then again consider the often seen rafting of multiple boats.