Studland Bay boat user support

vyv_cox

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
25,307
Location
France, sailing Aegean Sea.
I have been trying to refute some of the outrageous claims made by the seahorse huggers on Facebook regarding the loss of seagrass caused by moorings and anchoring. I am somewhat limited in this endeavour by the fact that I have never even been there, my only information coming from this forum. I would like to appeal to regular, and preferably long-term users of the bay to present their own knowledge and experience of the place. Recent threads insist that the seagrass is receding due to damage, whereas my understanding from here is that the opposite is the case.

Please sign up to the Seahorse Trust on FB to present the boating side of the argument, as factually as possible.
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
40,554
I have been trying to refute some of the outrageous claims made by the seahorse huggers on Facebook regarding the loss of seagrass caused by moorings and anchoring. I am somewhat limited in this endeavour by the fact that I have never even been there, my only information coming from this forum. I would like to appeal to regular, and preferably long-term users of the bay to present their own knowledge and experience of the place. Recent threads insist that the seagrass is receding due to damage, whereas my understanding from here is that the opposite is the case.

Please sign up to the Seahorse Trust on FB to present the boating side of the argument, as factually as possible.

Plenty of information available and a long running campaign by the Boat Owners Response Group, organised by old harry who posts here regularly. The BORG website has a number of papers submitted to DEFRA in the consultation process. Google Boat Owners Response Group and you will get both the website and direct links to some of the key papers. Studland Bay residents also run an active Facebook page giving the local perspective. As you can imagine all this strongly refutes the so called scientific evidence used by the Seahorse Trust.
 

vyv_cox

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
25,307
Location
France, sailing Aegean Sea.
I
Plenty of information available and a long running campaign by the Boat Owners Response Group, organised by old harry who posts here regularly. The BORG website has a number of papers submitted to DEFRA in the consultation process. Google Boat Owners Response Group and you will get both the website and direct links to some of the key papers. Studland Bay residents also run an active Facebook page giving the local perspective. As you can imagine all this strongly refutes the so called scientific evidence used by the Seahorse Trust.

Yes, I know all that and have been exchanging PMs with Old Harry. Could do with more people who know the reality on the Seahorse Trust FB page.
 

Twister_Ken

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Joined
31 May 2001
Messages
27,585
Location
'ang on a mo, I'll just take some bearings
I would, but I distrust Facebook so much (my account hacked twice) that I don't go near it now as a contributor.

Good luck with trying to apply some reason to the SHT pages - I get the feeling they delete posts that disagree with their POV.
 

Tranona

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Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
40,554
I

Yes, I know all that and have been exchanging PMs with Old Harry. Could do with more people who know the reality on the Seahorse Trust FB page.

Not sure what extra you are looking for. The claim about the shrinking of the eel grass beds has been comprehensively disproved by John's paper and consistently denied by personal observation from many people, including long time users such as myself. Plenty of evidence to the contrary from the ariel surveys and photos of clear sand where there is now eel grass. Even the originator of the myth has failed to produce any convincing evidence to support his claim.

In my view, almost impossible to get SHT to accept the evidence as they just ignore anything that does not agree with them. Equally their hold on certain sections of the media is difficult to shift. The BORG and RYA approach of ensuring that the alternative views are presented to the decision makers is the right one. Not sure who else you want to try and influence.
 

RobbieW

Well-known member
Joined
24 Jun 2007
Messages
4,549
Location
On land for now
Having had a look at the f'book page in question I have to say you're wasting your time Vyv, especially reading the replies to your posts. Theyre not interested in listening, though from BORGs perspective keeping an eye on whats posted there is useful as an indicator of the direction SHT might go for publicity
 

vyv_cox

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
25,307
Location
France, sailing Aegean Sea.
Having had a look at the f'book page in question I have to say you're wasting your time Vyv, especially reading the replies to your posts. Theyre not interested in listening, though from BORGs perspective keeping an eye on whats posted there is useful as an indicator of the direction SHT might go for publicity

I pretty much agree with you. I do think it does no harm to point out to the majority of the 1200 or so members of the SHT FB page that there is another side to the argument. My problem is that unlike Tranona I do not have 50 years experience of going there. If I could reply, as I believe is the case, that the moorings were laid on sand and the seagrass has grown there since, it might influence a few others to think again. What I lack is actual knowledge of the situation, mine is all secondhand.
 

pmagowan

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Joined
7 Sep 2009
Messages
11,701
Location
Northern Ireland
I think it is a good idea. The SHT are obviously trying to get publicity through FB. Showing that there is another side to the story might help those that are not brainwashed. People are often asked to join or 'like' things without any clue as to the contrary side.
 

oldharry

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Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,824
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
I share Vyv's frustration when I monitor the SHT FB page, and as the BORG team knows , I get frustrated with my own policies sometimes! There is so much arrant nonsense preached there: I have to remind myself that they have no more say in the actual decision making than I do - though reading it you would think otherwise!

I think what gets up my nose most of all though - and Vyv has found this too - is the bland assumption that anyone connected with BORG - depicted as shrinking minority group not even supported by the vast majority of boaters, with no credibility even with RYA, and unable to understand or produce any real science - is automatically anti-conservation, and BORG is just a self interested, wealthy (!!!!) group of greedy capitalists with no environmental interest You wouldnt believe some of the things I have been accused of by conservos who have been taken in by this.

So is there any point in pursuing NGM on Facebook? Yes, I think there is as a PR exercise. BORG obviously is never allowed to say anything there, so he gets away with saying what he likes, and of course readers have no way of knowing there is another side to the story. It will make little or no difference to the actual decisions made by DEFRA and the Minister which as you know is why BORG concentrates its efforts there. But how much weight will public opinion carry? Most of us here were infuriated by the arrogant claims of Packham on TV a couple of years ago, and that sort of publicity doesnt help our plea for robust, clear science based evidence in important boating areas like Studland and the Solent.

The trouble is, it's not just SHT and NGM doing this sort of thing: although Natural England never directly criticise the boating community, they are very busy trying to find reasons for excluding us, and blaming leisure boats for a range of increasingly fantastic damages. We damage sand and mud not just by anchoring, but by 'launching and operating' our boats. Seahorses are killed in collisions with yachts, we are responsible for spreading a range of invasive and damaging species. I kid you not - these have all been seriously proposed by NE in the last few months! Unless somebody points out the lunacy of some of these claims, they will get away with it, and we will find ourselves being squeezed out of a growing number of our favourite places. RYA is the ONLY other body monitoring and challenging these crazy allegations.

Last Autumn we were asked to provide information about the possible disturbance to Tern Fishing Grounds on the S Coast: Mike Simons was fortunate to see and report on a Tern actually diving THROUGH his rigging after its prey! We have heard little more of this one.... but somebody is being paid to research it and try and prove we disturb these pretty little birds.

I Just wish birds would keep off my deck on the mooring..... ! I would be quite happy if they were disturbed and went (sic) somewhere else :)
 

Sybarite

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2002
Messages
27,542
Location
France
I have been trying to refute some of the outrageous claims made by the seahorse huggers on Facebook regarding the loss of seagrass caused by moorings and anchoring. I am somewhat limited in this endeavour by the fact that I have never even been there, my only information coming from this forum. I would like to appeal to regular, and preferably long-term users of the bay to present their own knowledge and experience of the place. Recent threads insist that the seagrass is receding due to damage, whereas my understanding from here is that the opposite is the case.

Please sign up to the Seahorse Trust on FB to present the boating side of the argument, as factually as possible.

Somebody published aerial photos taken at different dates showing that the eelgrass field had extended. I think it may have been posted about a year ago.
 

Tranona

Well-known member
Joined
10 Nov 2007
Messages
40,554
Somebody published aerial photos taken at different dates showing that the eelgrass field had extended. I think it may have been posted about a year ago.

That is well covered in the BORG reports and submitted to DEFRA.
 

jac

Well-known member
Joined
10 Sep 2001
Messages
9,181
Location
Home Berkshire, Boat Hamble
I share Vyv's frustration when I monitor the SHT FB page, and as the BORG team knows , I get frustrated with my own policies sometimes! There is so much arrant nonsense preached there: I have to remind myself that they have no more say in the actual decision making than I do - though reading it you would think otherwise!

I think what gets up my nose most of all though - and Vyv has found this too - is the bland assumption that anyone connected with BORG - depicted as shrinking minority group not even supported by the vast majority of boaters, with no credibility even with RYA, and unable to understand or produce any real science - is automatically anti-conservation, and BORG is just a self interested, wealthy (!!!!) group of greedy capitalists with no environmental interest You wouldnt believe some of the things I have been accused of by conservos who have been taken in by this.

So is there any point in pursuing NGM on Facebook? Yes, I think there is as a PR exercise. BORG obviously is never allowed to say anything there, so he gets away with saying what he likes, and of course readers have no way of knowing there is another side to the story. It will make little or no difference to the actual decisions made by DEFRA and the Minister which as you know is why BORG concentrates its efforts there. But how much weight will public opinion carry? Most of us here were infuriated by the arrogant claims of Packham on TV a couple of years ago, and that sort of publicity doesnt help our plea for robust, clear science based evidence in important boating areas like Studland and the Solent.

The trouble is, it's not just SHT and NGM doing this sort of thing: although Natural England never directly criticise the boating community, they are very busy trying to find reasons for excluding us, and blaming leisure boats for a range of increasingly fantastic damages. We damage sand and mud not just by anchoring, but by 'launching and operating' our boats. Seahorses are killed in collisions with yachts, we are responsible for spreading a range of invasive and damaging species. I kid you not - these have all been seriously proposed by NE in the last few months! Unless somebody points out the lunacy of some of these claims, they will get away with it, and we will find ourselves being squeezed out of a growing number of our favourite places. RYA is the ONLY other body monitoring and challenging these crazy allegations.

Last Autumn we were asked to provide information about the possible disturbance to Tern Fishing Grounds on the S Coast: Mike Simons was fortunate to see and report on a Tern actually diving THROUGH his rigging after its prey! We have heard little more of this one.... but somebody is being paid to research it and try and prove we disturb these pretty little birds.

I Just wish birds would keep off my deck on the mooring..... ! I would be quite happy if they were disturbed and went (sic) somewhere else :)

Part of the solution might be the governments recent announcement re a 25% and 40% cut in department spend. If questions can be raised with MPs ( esp tory ones) showing profligacy & waste by Natural England in this exercise then they should be able to use that to hack back at NE budget in order to save the valuable bits of public service. No budget = no conservos
 

kevburt

New member
Joined
12 Nov 2005
Messages
11
Waste of time saying anything on the Seahorse Facebook page. I tried asking a couple of questions on there a short while back and instead of getting any answer my questions were deleted and I was kicked off the page.
 

vyv_cox

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
25,307
Location
France, sailing Aegean Sea.
Waste of time saying anything on the Seahorse Facebook page. I tried asking a couple of questions on there a short while back and instead of getting any answer my questions were deleted and I was kicked off the page.

I made a few points and had some discussion. AFAIK I am still a member.
 

oldharry

Well-known member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
9,824
Location
North from the Nab about 10 miles
I think its a matter of how you approach it. Go in as Vyv did asking reasonable questions he wont chuck you out as long as he thinks he can convert you. Soon as you start talking hard facts he will cut you off though.
 
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