String or turnbuckle for lifelines?

[pvb]

Turnbuckles. Why do so many new boats have turnbuckles when it would be cheaper to use a bit of string?

 

[lw395]

Turnbuckles. Why do so many new boats have turnbuckles when it would be cheaper to use a bit of string?

Because people think string looks untidy?

 

[Seajet]

Well, I've known pelican hooks fitted with 'locking rings', come adrift without outside assistance, which is not good, when you have a gap instead of a guard rail at an entry port.
The recovery crew in your scenario, would be back in the cockpit attending to the casualty, so safe from falling back in. Probably fell in in the first place, because of the bloody pelican hook.

Again,

dunno what the hell you've seen but my Gibb hooks simply wouldn't do that, I've had them for over 20 years with plenty of crew activity and flogging sheets etc against them.

I am familiar with hooks which CAN undo themselves like single action snap shackles, as people found out the hard way with harnesses in the 79 Fastnet.

If there is a make of pelican hook out there which is as dodgy as you and others mention on here, it might explain the general reluctance to use them, which I find so hard to understand.

 

[PetiteFleur]

String - on boat when I bought it so replaced immediately, now 11 yrs old so probably need replacing - polyester, so would it be a reasonable time to replace?

 

[Seajet]

String - on boat when I bought it so replaced immediately, now 11 yrs old so probably need replacing - polyester, so would it be a reasonable time to replace?

Sad in the 21st Century...

 

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

If I were having lifelines at all I'd use pelican hooks on them at both ends. But in fact on my pocket cruiser Sanderling I did away with lifelines altogether. I came to the conculsion that they just encourage a false sense of security. Moreover, on many boats I've seen the lifelines have been at just the right height to help tip you o/b if you fall against them. Finally, the lack of lifelines and their stanchions makes it much simpler to retrieve anyone unfortunate enough to go o/b.

Instead, rig a centreline jackstay on the deck and clip on whenever you leave the cockpit.

Mike

 

[charles_reed]

To string or not to string -

the ORC has clear definition on this (and probably more corpus of experience than all the contributors to this website put together and doubled). Guard rails should be non-plastic covered and the final fixing should be a lashing.

I personally use UHDPE for my guard rails - it's lighter, deals a lesser wound if one is thrown against it and is considerably stronger diameter against diameter of plastic-covered guard rail.

If anyone has tried to recover a casualty, in a seaway, they'll know that the transom ladder is impossible on modern boats and trying to haul the casualty under the rain of over it is nearly as bad.

Far the best is to never fall overboard (especially if single-handed). Some never go out of the cockpit in rough seas, others swear by jackstays (both times I've been over have been in between clippings-on).
If one fears a lonely death adrift on the waters I'd suggest not going to sea.

 

[mjcoon]

If one fears a lonely death adrift on the waters I'd suggest not going to sea.

Spoilsport! ;-)

Mike.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... If one fears a lonely death adrift on the waters I'd suggest not going to sea.

On the contrary, all who go to sea should fear a lonely death adrift on the water, of course the fear does not have to be debilitating. I can't imagine being overboard and particularly calm and confident as I watch my yacht sail away from me.

 

[pvb]

I personally use UHDPE for my guard rails - it's lighter, deals a lesser wound if one is thrown against it and is considerably stronger diameter against diameter of plastic-covered guard rail.

Unfortunately, UV exposure rapidly reduces its strength to less than equivalent diameter plastic-covered wire.

 

[pvb]

Even losing 50%strength, you'll still rip a stantion out of the deck before it breaks.

As you would with wire.

 

[GHA]

Unfortunately, UV exposure rapidly reduces its strength to less than equivalent diameter plastic-covered wire.

Bliimin phone! Deletes posts just to annoy

Anyway, there's dyneema availilable which has uv/chaff resistant coatings.
Any links to data on the strength reduction due to UV for dyneema?
I've searched online but nothing much available.

 

[pvb]

Here's a graph I found online...

View attachment 56206

I think the bigger potential drawback of Dyneema guardrails is chafing where they go through the stanchions.

 

[GHA]

Here's a graph I found online...

View attachment 56206

I think the bigger potential drawback of Dyneema guardrails is chafing where they go through the stanchions.

That's the only thing I found as well, from here..
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content...yneema Spectra Lifeline Revision Jan 2014.pdf
No mention of what make of dyneema.
As for chaff, I did a test with some 5mm D12 SK99 in short leaders of mooring warps/springs and for that material, I would't worried about chafing, when I get some time I'll post some close up images of the slight burning where it went through fairleads after nearly 2 months of hard labour in an often bouncy marina. A separate piece of tech12 faired worse.
IMHO, the likes of D12 dyneema is absolutely fine for lifelines with many advantages.
Price not being one

 

[sarabande]

Unfortunately, UV exposure rapidly reduces its strength to less than equivalent diameter plastic-covered wire.

SOME dyneema-style ropes are susceptible to UV, which is why many of them are covered with a surface braid to resist abrasion and the pernicious effects of the sun.


Marlow Ropes "UV Resistant: Dyneema® has very good resistance to photo degradation, maintaining its performance when exposed to UV light"


EDIT
And I have been extensive recent correspondence with Hampiðjan about their top-range ropes. Note the many different design characteristics of the surface braid.

http://www.hampidjan.is/products/yachting/dynice/

 

[Seajet]

You might also like to ponder about U/V damage and salt crystal wear.

All metal with pelican hooks is surely the way to go, this is the 21st Century FFS !

 

[GHA]

You might also like to ponder about U/V damage and salt crystal wear.

All metal with pelican hooks is surely the way to go, this is the 21st Century FFS !

It is indeed 21st century.
We can now get lightweight nice on the hands rope which you simply can't break before something else on the boat breaks . Stick a pelican hook in if you want. You don't have to use steel wire rope anymore.

 

[pvb]

It is indeed 21st century.
We can now get lightweight nice on the hands rope which you simply can't break before something else on the boat breaks . Stick a pelican hook in if you want. You don't have to use steel wire rope anymore.

But why use rope? Strength for strength, it's bigger and more expensive than stainless 1x19. Unlike stainless, it suffers from UV degradation, and it's prone to chafing damage. It might be a bit lighter, but for a few metres of guardrail the difference won't be significant.

 

[Seajet]

Quite.

line guardrail lashings are a quick easy cheap bodge, without thought as to how important the wires really are.

A nigh on essential subject, usually glossed over; but the same people who bodge guardrails are happy to spend lots on PLB's just to tick the ' We've got those, all the safety kit ' boxes !

Measuring things and doing it properly is obviously tremendously difficult compared to ordering PLB's online from an inland office...

 

[lw395]

But why use rope? Strength for strength, it's bigger and more expensive than stainless 1x19. Unlike stainless, it suffers from UV degradation, and it's prone to chafing damage. It might be a bit lighter, but for a few metres of guardrail the difference won't be significant.

Rope is nice where you lean against it on a racing boat.
It's simpler and easier to inspect than wire covered in padding to make it bearable to lean on.
May also be cheaper as no fittings are needed to splice it.
Personally I would stick to wire.