ytd
Well-Known Member
There was a recent thread about this topic. This appears to be a good solution.
http://uk.storm-bag.com/
(no connection)
http://uk.storm-bag.com/
(no connection)
storm sail over furled genoa
- Thread starter ytd
- Start date
cmedsailor
Well-Known Member
Looks interesting. Wondering about prices...
BeBe
Well-Known Member
I just sold our ATM 150 storm sail which hanks over a furled jib. The problem is that when you need to deploy this, it is much safer to run with the storm under short sails than to deploy it. On our circumnavigation, we experienced a force 9 and could have used the storm sail, but wouldn't risk deploying it.
Good idea in theory!
Hope that this helps you in your decision.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
I'd be more impressed by these sales videos if they were actually filmed when the wind was howling. Looks like a lot of faffing about with this device.
Seajet
...
Also one is still stuck with the windage of the rolled genoa, which would usually be enough to prevent going to windward in really severe winds.
It's all very well saying 'just run downwind' but there might well be something inconvenient like rocks or land in that direction...
Much better to remove the genoa, sooner rather than later when conditions are even worse, and put up a well setting storm jib.
It's all very well saying 'just run downwind' but there might well be something inconvenient like rocks or land in that direction...
Much better to remove the genoa, sooner rather than later when conditions are even worse, and put up a well setting storm jib.
MASH
N/A
Trouble with that idea is just when do you derig your genoa? When the wind gets to - what? F7 and rising? F8 and steady? It probably wouldn't be at all pleasant, let alone safe to lower a big modern 140% genny much over F5, so do we drop it there? Every time it gets to a 5 then? Whenever you choose you're going to be dropping and re-rigging that genny far too often, and re- rigging one at sea in any wind at all is not an easy job - modern furlers aren't designed for ease of rigging at sea unlike hank-on sails.
Its just too much sail to roll out in big wind and when it is getting towards actually needing a storm sail I'd guess most of the time that would be suicidal, so I hae me doots about the theory of dropping the genny tho I recognise the importance of doing so in extreme weather. Its just that when you need to the design makes sure you can't.
As with all things the furling genoa is a compromise and 99.% of the time it is a good one but their limitations increase in proportion with the windspeed, so when the wind gets extreme so do the limitations - and hazards - of your roller furling system. (think of the problems when the F9 manages to unravel the furling rope and the thing starts to get loose...)
If conditions are so bad that the windage of a rolled genny is critical you're in a real pickle anyway - and wishing you'd stuck with hank-on sails I think.
Its just too much sail to roll out in big wind and when it is getting towards actually needing a storm sail I'd guess most of the time that would be suicidal, so I hae me doots about the theory of dropping the genny tho I recognise the importance of doing so in extreme weather. Its just that when you need to the design makes sure you can't.
As with all things the furling genoa is a compromise and 99.% of the time it is a good one but their limitations increase in proportion with the windspeed, so when the wind gets extreme so do the limitations - and hazards - of your roller furling system. (think of the problems when the F9 manages to unravel the furling rope and the thing starts to get loose...)
If conditions are so bad that the windage of a rolled genny is critical you're in a real pickle anyway - and wishing you'd stuck with hank-on sails I think.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The whole idea of this device is that you do not take off your genoa, but raise this sail using a spare (spinnaker?) halyard. The sail is 2 thicknesses and wraps round the furled genoa.
Not the only one of its type on the market and like many things is a compromise. The alternative is a removable inner forestay with a a hanked on storm jib. More work and expense to install, but arguably more effective.
prv
Well-Known Member
I believe MASH was replying to Seajet's suggestion, which was to remove the genoa.
As always, this would have been clear with appropriate quoting.
Pete
alant
Well-Known Member
I had a Beneteau 44, which I took out a few years back on a Day Skipper course. Because of the weather conditions (F10/11), we were unable to leave the pontoon on day one, so spent some time checking out the storm sail etc, which included a similar luff wrap around storm jib. This had never been taken out of its bag, since delivered with the boat
, so we had some interesting attempts at rigging it. Even with a fairly well rolled headsail, moored onto a pontoon, it proved nigh impossible to rig. This was mainly due to friction not allowing it to be hoisted whilst wrapped around the headsail. I even tried using parrel beads to reduce the friction & get it hoisted. This method was partly successful, but the final 'sag' in the forestay made it virtually useless as a storm jib (seemed only on board to satisfy coding requirements. If we had needed it for real, at sea, it would have endangered the whole enterprise.My experience above, is obviously specific to that particular sail & does not impact on the viability of the OP's link. However, IMO simple proven systems are best in 'storm' conditions. I would suggest that anyone considering purchase, should try it out first, before being caught out in anger.
PITCAIRN
Active Member
For anyone who has been in a F8+ knows, doing anything on the foredeck is nigh on impossible. Add to that issues of crew suitability, i.e. how many on board, how competent, how fit, how brave etc (many of us are just husband and wife teams) - then the whole idea of getting any kind of storm jib up at even F7 becomes seriously tricky. Taking down a genoa is a total non starter without a big crew.I had a Beneteau 44, which I took out a few years back on a Day Skipper course. Because of the weather conditions (F10/11), we were unable to leave the pontoon on day one, so spent some time checking out the storm sail etc, which included a similar luff wrap around storm jib. This had never been taken out of its bag, since delivered with the boat
My experience above, is obviously specific to that particular sail & does not impact on the viability of the OP's link. However, IMO simple proven systems are best in 'storm' conditions. I would suggest that anyone considering purchase, should try it out first, before being caught out in anger.
Have a hanked on storm jib which attaches to a second stay, either one which has been permanently fitted (Have on my yacht) or removable stay which is fitted up as the weather forecast dictates. One normally would get various alerts that an F6 might deteriorate (be they radio, weather fax, navtex, Baromoter, or simple real time weather observation; normally a combination of everything) . Thats when to act. The storm jib is hanked on and tied off at the rail till decision taken to finally wrap away what s left of the genoa (already shorted right down to about a 1/4 of full size) and hoist the storm jib.
If pointing into the wind the storm jib is really only giving you some directional stability, rather than forward speed and you'd be lucky just to maintain station and not be blown backwards on most boats in an F9.
rob2
Well-Known Member
There was a PBO test of a number of such devices, including this one, a few years back. There were a number of drawbacks noted with each type but overall none of them sailed as well as a dedicated storm jib hanked on a removeable stay - it was the only way to prevent excess sag.
Rob.
Rob.
alant
Well-Known Member
That would be my choice - simplicity & proven.
Also, in danger of 'teaching grandmothers etc', wrap any spare spinnaker halyard around the rolled up Genoa, to prevent it escaping. Another tip, which should be obvious, is to do any foredeck work when 'off the wind', to protect crew getting lashed/injured.
Seajet
...
As I mentioned previously, I am a great believer in a dedicated, well shaped storm jib hanked to either a removable Plan B forestay or a babystay, and I still maintain that if extreme conditions threaten, the rolled genoa has to come off and be stowed to reduce windage; this shouldn't be that difficult if done in time with a considerate helmsperson, easier than a lot of spinnaker handling in calmer conditions.
Like any emergency gear such a set-up needs to be tried and practiced with first before use in anger; it may well prove the case that a backstay tensioner is necessary to keep the storm jib luff tight.
Like any emergency gear such a set-up needs to be tried and practiced with first before use in anger; it may well prove the case that a backstay tensioner is necessary to keep the storm jib luff tight.
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
How would you rig and more importantly tension, a 'storm forestay'? Some sort of permanently rigged ( at the spreaders? ) stay, made off at the base of the mast normally and with a highfield lever type attachment somewhere in between the forehatch and the forestay tang to be connected to when it gets to F6+ ?
prv
Well-Known Member
Seajet
...
nimbusgb,
just as you describe, with a heavily backed eye in the deck to hook the stay onto, tensioned with a backstay tensioner, the stay length would have to be well sorted.
Sheet leads would need to be investigated during practicing...
Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
I think I posted this some weeks back.
From the threads responding I have decided on two courses of action:-
1 Save my money and stick to the original storm jib on removable babystay.
2 Don't go sailing when the wind may reach above F6
Seriously, those are all valid points, especially those referring to windage of a furled genoa and all sorts of foredeck work in really bad weather.
Please continue with your threads, there are most informative.
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
I agree but I wouldn't want to be on the foredeck in anything over the F6 unless I really, really had to be!
I've been on foredecks when the deck falls away so quickly that one is all but weightless, trying to rig a stay with one hand ( 'cos in those conditions I'm hanging on for all I'm worth ) in that might be more than anyone could do. I'd go as far as saying that with a deteriorating forecast I'd want to rig it and get the storm jib hanked on and lashed down ( perhaps with sacrificial velcro ties ? ) in the F6.
Just thinking it through. If it looks more than F5 in Greece we stick a second hook down or tie up to a piece of land and open some more wine!
prv
Well-Known Member
It's certainly desirable, though I've never attempted it and don't really want to. It's not like changing a hanked-on sail - it's not pinned to the stay while you bundle it up, plus you're not bringing down the number 3 to rig the storm jib, you have to unroll and bring down the full-size genoa.
I have brought down my rolled-up jib to reduce windage on KS before, when we were going to be plugging upwind against a F7. Stowed the bowsprit on deck, and coiled up the furled jib and lashed it down. No way I was going to set it (I also have a staysail, remember) and that fat roll would have added a hell of a drag.
Pete
