Storm jib without a stay?

[Plevier]

Question prompted by the posts about light genoa without a stay!

My boat (29ft Beneteau First) came with a storm jib. This has a wire rope luff, attaches at the foot to a deck eye (original not added on) half way between the forestay and the babystay, and at its head has a wire rope with rolling beads on it which is just long enough to go round the furled genoa and shackles at its ends to the head cringle of the storm jib. I presume you leave the furled genoa up and pull the storm jib up with the second halyard.

Is this a common system and is it satisfactory please? The sail (Jeckells I think from memory) looks unused and I haven't tried fitting it yet, I must get round to it! I guess it's about 1/4 height, would that be typical?

 

[PetiteFleur]

One of the Sailing mags has just done a test on various storm jib 'systems' but they were all 'sleeved' or 'wrap round' systems. The conclusion was that you can't beat a 'hanked' on storm jib on a separate stay. I've heard about the Jeckells system with parrel beads but never used one in anger. The problems I can see is getting the parrel beads around the furled genoa while the jib is flogging about the foredeck, and screwing up shackles - almost impossible I say - you would need a snap shackle at least so no loose components to go swimming. Then you have to hoist the jib and hope the parrel beads will get past the bulk of the genoa and any wrapped around sheets - would your sheets be long enough or enough spare rotations of the furling drum to spiral them down to deck level?
The advantage of a hanked on jib is that the luff is restrained and will be easy to hoist. I suggest you try it - if it looks possible, modify with a snap shackle, or ask Jeckells for their advice.

 

[Plevier]

One of the Sailing mags has just done a test on various storm jib 'systems' but they were all 'sleeved' or 'wrap round' systems. The conclusion was that you can't beat a 'hanked' on storm jib on a separate stay. I've heard about the Jeckells system with parrel beads but never used one in anger. The problems I can see is getting the parrel beads around the furled genoa while the jib is flogging about the foredeck, and screwing up shackles - almost impossible I say - you would need a snap shackle at least so no loose components to go swimming. Then you have to hoist the jib and hope the parrel beads will get past the bulk of the genoa and any wrapped around sheets - would your sheets be long enough or enough spare rotations of the furling drum to spiral them down to deck level?
The advantage of a hanked on jib is that the luff is restrained and will be easy to hoist. I suggest you try it - if it looks possible, modify with a snap shackle, or ask Jeckells for their advice.

Actually it is a snap shackle, I didn't bother saying so. Very good point about the sheets. Will have to have a go - tomorrow's threatening to be quite windy! Thanks.

 

[mitiempo]

Willow
One of the problems I see, in addition to the ones mentioned in above post, is that you'll never get the luff tight enough for a good set, at least when beating. And the tighter you try to make it, the more load on the furler from a direction it was never meant to withstand. Also the parrels (beads) will wear the furled jib more than you can imagine. I would get a stay made to attach near the masthead with the lower end removeable and tensionable with a turnbuckle with handles. You say it is original - sounds a bit strange for Beneteau equipment, maybe another owner. While some do this with a light weather sail, I can't see it as a good idea with a storm jib.

 

[Plevier]

Willow
One of the problems I see, in addition to the ones mentioned in above post, is that you'll never get the luff tight enough for a good set, at least when beating. And the tighter you try to make it, the more load on the furler from a direction it was never meant to withstand. Also the parrels (beads) will wear the furled jib more than you can imagine. I would get a stay made to attach near the masthead with the lower end removeable and tensionable with a turnbuckle with handles. You say it is original - sounds a bit strange for Beneteau equipment, maybe another owner.

The luff tension was what bothered me most. Take your point about wear too.
I'm sure the deck eye is original, there is a moulded flat spot for it and I think you can just see it in one of the brochure photos. No doubt the sail was not original equipment, but what else might this eye be for?

 

[mitiempo]

The eye is probably for a storm jib, but I would guess with a different arrangement. Is there an attachment for a stay at or near the masthead? If near the masthead runners will not be needed. How far up the furled jib does it ride on the parrels? I still think putting a localized off axis force on the forestay is bad as you could even kink the foil section of the furler as its not designed for this. And yes you will not get the luff tight enough either.

 

[petitbleu]

Hi Willow3,
As one who has used one of this type of stormjib I can say that they do work. Ours was made by Hyde and has a full height sleeve which wraps around the furled genoa. We have used it in F8/9 on our Dehler 33 and there is no problem with luff tension (it is hoisted on the spinnaker halyard) and no sign of any problem with the genoa. We chose it because there is no need for any extra deck fitting or stay.

 

[mitiempo]

petitbleu
Yours looks good - very workable. But on Willow's Beneteau the tack is on deck midway between the forestay and the babystay, with the storm jib going from there to a point on the furled sail where it rides on parrels and then the halyard goes to the masthead from there. Yours does not have the issues his has. If his was parallel to the forestay he wouldn't have a problem. Maybe he should make the tack fast at the bow and parallel the stay to take the side strain off the furled jib.

 

[Plevier]

Thanks for all the hints.
Interesting experimenting today (just at the pontoon, not out, our racing was cancelled). Taking it to the spare deck eye is definitely not right. Horrible angle of pull on the forestay/furling foil.
There is just room to shackle the foot of it to the genoa attachment ring on the drum of the furler so it runs straight up alongside the furled genoa. Only problem then is the loose luff. Maybe I should think of adding a full length sleeve or some extra loops to it.
I guess a Dyneema halyard would help too instead of braid on braid.
Have also seen article in Jan PBO, thanks for the pointer to that. They seem to think a sleeve is not much better than a loose luff.
When all's said and done, I'm not going blue water cruising or ocean racing in a lift keel 29 ft boat! It's coastal and cross channel use and I'll only ever need this sail if I get a plan and the weather horribly wrong. On that basis I think it's adequate and I'll risk the parrel beads (didn't know that word before!) damaging the genoa, which is Dacron with a heavy UV strip, not vulnerable laminate.

 

[mitiempo]

The parrel beads should not damage the furled genoa if you attach the storm jib to the genoa attachment ring. It is an issue if using the mid deck attachment point. If you change the halyard to a less stretchy line and use a winch you should be fine for your intended cruising plans.