EdEssery
Well-Known Member
I am thinking of storing my Suzuki 2.5 outboard in the lazarette locker when it's not in use. Does anybody do this? If so, how do you keep it upright?
Thoughts welcome.
Ed
Thoughts welcome.
Ed
Storing an outboard in a lazarette locker
- Thread starter EdEssery
- Start date
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
I only put my two stroke outboard in a locker when it is completely dry of fuel. Petrol vapour will settle in the bottom of the locker otherwise, and be a serious explosion hazard.
Jonny_H
Well-Known Member
As long as you run it dry it shouldn't damage the engine too much. When we bought our boat the Yamaha Malta outboard had been left upside down in the locker with half a tank of fuel all winter (not very safe and the first thing we moved!).
On racing sportsboats (Cork 1720's, SB3's etc) you put the outboard on its side in the bilges when racing, and it doesn't do much harm that I've noticed.
On racing sportsboats (Cork 1720's, SB3's etc) you put the outboard on its side in the bilges when racing, and it doesn't do much harm that I've noticed.
Krusty
Well-Known Member
You've thought about it: now abandon the idea!
Even an outboard drained of all fuel retains enough on the fuel-wet-surfaces to evaporate; and in the confined space of a locker, reach an explosive concentration.
Most stern lockers drain to the bilge, by way of the engine bay: and when you operate the starter you may well create a spark. Enough said?
I suppose we shall now see a stream of posts from boat-owners who regularly do it, and have 'never had a problem'.
YET
Even an outboard drained of all fuel retains enough on the fuel-wet-surfaces to evaporate; and in the confined space of a locker, reach an explosive concentration.
Most stern lockers drain to the bilge, by way of the engine bay: and when you operate the starter you may well create a spark. Enough said?
I suppose we shall now see a stream of posts from boat-owners who regularly do it, and have 'never had a problem'.
YET
damo
Well-Known Member
If the locker is deep enough then bolt/glass a mounting board to a bulkhead and hang the o/b off it, secured with its own mounting screws.
Make sure the locker is sealed from the rest of the boat, and is vented - same principle as for gas lockers and battery compartments.
For the naysayers - how many of you have open lead acid batts that vent their hydrogen into the boat, and you never worry about it?
Make sure the locker is sealed from the rest of the boat, and is vented - same principle as for gas lockers and battery compartments.
For the naysayers - how many of you have open lead acid batts that vent their hydrogen into the boat, and you never worry about it?
G
Guest
Guest
My father did it ...... his friends did it .... I did it on my 2 prev. boats ... thousands do it ....
Thousands carry a fuel can in a locker ... (I'm in the fuel biz and I haven't seen a normal plastic fuel can that is fuel tight yet ...).
I accept that Hydrocarbon vapour is heavier than air and will collect in bilges etc. But it is also readily diluted by air around ... I'll not argue that point as I'm in the biz .. and spent many years Tank Cleaning Ships.
Sensible stowage method and common sense ...
To me it is far more dangerous having a Camping Gaz stove in a cabin ... the type with integral small Gaz cannisters under ... so there's bias for you !!
Thousands carry a fuel can in a locker ... (I'm in the fuel biz and I haven't seen a normal plastic fuel can that is fuel tight yet ...).
I accept that Hydrocarbon vapour is heavier than air and will collect in bilges etc. But it is also readily diluted by air around ... I'll not argue that point as I'm in the biz .. and spent many years Tank Cleaning Ships.
Sensible stowage method and common sense ...
To me it is far more dangerous having a Camping Gaz stove in a cabin ... the type with integral small Gaz cannisters under ... so there's bias for you !!
peterb26
Well-Known Member
Going back to basics is it a 2 stroke or 4 stroke? I think we are all presuming that its a 2 stroke.
Judders
Well-Known Member
My Mercury 4/ 4hp has a section in the manual stating that it is perfectly safe to leave the outboard a certain way up but not the other.
G
Guest
Guest
Small dinghy 2st's are easy to stow ... and let's be honest most lazarette lockers are not the best for special stowage ! Even those boats that had them designed for aux. o/board stowage ...
Krusty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
My father did it ...... his friends did it .... I did it on my 2 prev. boats ... thousands do it ....
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course: sailing offshore at all carries intrinsic risks and we all accept risk, either in ignorance or by choice.
Sometimes we lose out, like an owner I came across whose GRP boat burned to the waterline because he could not put out a galley fire, and another whose wooden boat exploded, blowing the coachroof and deck to pieces, as he and his family walked away along the pontoon! That was either LPG or petrol.
[ QUOTE ]
Sensible stowage method and common sense ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with that: a dedicated sealed locker with drain overboard is ideal.
[ QUOTE ]
To me it is far more dangerous having a Camping Gaz stove in a cabin ... the type with integral small Gaz cannisters under ... so there's bias for you !!
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree wholeheartedly with that too: I don't much like LPG installations in boats either, and use Taylors paraffin cooker and cabin-heater in my own boat.
My father did it ...... his friends did it .... I did it on my 2 prev. boats ... thousands do it ....
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course: sailing offshore at all carries intrinsic risks and we all accept risk, either in ignorance or by choice.
Sometimes we lose out, like an owner I came across whose GRP boat burned to the waterline because he could not put out a galley fire, and another whose wooden boat exploded, blowing the coachroof and deck to pieces, as he and his family walked away along the pontoon! That was either LPG or petrol.
[ QUOTE ]
Sensible stowage method and common sense ...
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with that: a dedicated sealed locker with drain overboard is ideal.
[ QUOTE ]
To me it is far more dangerous having a Camping Gaz stove in a cabin ... the type with integral small Gaz cannisters under ... so there's bias for you !!
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree wholeheartedly with that too: I don't much like LPG installations in boats either, and use Taylors paraffin cooker and cabin-heater in my own boat.
G
Guest
Guest
My boat was berthed in the Solent Marina that was involved with the boat that exploded out on the mooring ... very sadly a great guy dieing in hospital as a result.
It was reported that most likely a Gas related incident. I knew the boat, owner and also the aftermath as it was winched up onto the yard ...
So I have some observation of similar.
I still use gas - Butane to change to Propane actually as boat is now in Baltic. As I believe good husbandry on my part will prove my safe keeping. (I do not cast any comment on the above incident in any way).
I have seen accidents with Parafin stoves ... I have seen accidents and results on various boats for various reasons - or perceived. But very few for Gas.
In actual incidents that I know of personally and saw ... As a child in Fareham Creek ... in 60's - a boat blew through a bottle leaked into the bilges ... ( as I recall the installation was totally suspect anyway ...). The second is the one above not so long ago. Thats 2 incidents I know of for sure in my 51 yrs age.
I have never seen or heard of a petrol one due to o/board or stowage - due to inboard engine yes ...
I have seen plenty of scarred galley surfaces / eyebrows from spirit flares !
Don't mean to go on ... but I do find comments against gas not quite in keeping with my observations ..
Each to their own ... and definitely no disrespect intended.
It was reported that most likely a Gas related incident. I knew the boat, owner and also the aftermath as it was winched up onto the yard ...
So I have some observation of similar.
I still use gas - Butane to change to Propane actually as boat is now in Baltic. As I believe good husbandry on my part will prove my safe keeping. (I do not cast any comment on the above incident in any way).
I have seen accidents with Parafin stoves ... I have seen accidents and results on various boats for various reasons - or perceived. But very few for Gas.
In actual incidents that I know of personally and saw ... As a child in Fareham Creek ... in 60's - a boat blew through a bottle leaked into the bilges ... ( as I recall the installation was totally suspect anyway ...). The second is the one above not so long ago. Thats 2 incidents I know of for sure in my 51 yrs age.
I have never seen or heard of a petrol one due to o/board or stowage - due to inboard engine yes ...
I have seen plenty of scarred galley surfaces / eyebrows from spirit flares !
Don't mean to go on ... but I do find comments against gas not quite in keeping with my observations ..
Each to their own ... and definitely no disrespect intended.
Chris_Robb
Well-Known Member
Yes but Hydrogen goes up - petrol and gas go down, so definitley not in the same category
duncan
Well-Known Member
that's to keep the oil in the right place nothing to do with the fuel!
duncan
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I only put my two stroke outboard in a locker when it is completely dry of fuel. Petrol vapour will settle in the bottom of the locker otherwise, and be a serious explosion hazard.
[/ QUOTE ]
so where do you put the fuel?
why carry an OB at all if you aren't carrying fuel for it?
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
btw I am not in anyway suggesting that it doesn't represent a risk..... I have highlighted exactly this on most of the posts about petrol v diesel engine as a power source from a safety perspective.
I only put my two stroke outboard in a locker when it is completely dry of fuel. Petrol vapour will settle in the bottom of the locker otherwise, and be a serious explosion hazard.
[/ QUOTE ]
so where do you put the fuel?
why carry an OB at all if you aren't carrying fuel for it?
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
btw I am not in anyway suggesting that it doesn't represent a risk..... I have highlighted exactly this on most of the posts about petrol v diesel engine as a power source from a safety perspective.
Norman_E
Well-Known Member
Fuel can is tightly closed and goes into the spare space in the gas locker, which has a bottom vent overboard and not into the bilge. (My gas cylinders are the squat type and leave space in the deep gas locker to stow the can upright.)
duncan
Well-Known Member
good man Norman - I would (unfortunately) suggest that you are in the minority. As bemoaned often gas lockers are just too small on many production yachts nowadays (you could get an extra charter berth in the space for a petrol can!)
Krusty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
My boat was berthed in the Solent Marina that was involved with the boat that exploded out on the mooring ...
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting: the case I referred to was in Scotland; so these events are not unique!
As I commented previously; we all accept risk, through ignorance or choice.
The trick is to actively make yourself aware of the (sometimes hidden) risks, make
your own (informed) assessment of them, choose those you are prepared to live with and adopt installations, precautions and practices to minimise them; then stick to those with pretty strict discipline (self and crew!)
These forums can be a good pointer to achieving that.
Training by professionals is another, but often by-passed in favour on some smart bit of electronic kit of dubious value!
My boat was berthed in the Solent Marina that was involved with the boat that exploded out on the mooring ...
[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting: the case I referred to was in Scotland; so these events are not unique!
As I commented previously; we all accept risk, through ignorance or choice.
The trick is to actively make yourself aware of the (sometimes hidden) risks, make
your own (informed) assessment of them, choose those you are prepared to live with and adopt installations, precautions and practices to minimise them; then stick to those with pretty strict discipline (self and crew!)
These forums can be a good pointer to achieving that.
Training by professionals is another, but often by-passed in favour on some smart bit of electronic kit of dubious value!
Pete7
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
so where do you put the fuel?
[/ QUOTE ] How about the anchor locker up the sharp end?
Pete
so where do you put the fuel?
[/ QUOTE ] How about the anchor locker up the sharp end?
Pete
G
Guest
Guest
The most dangerous tank or space is one that HAS contained hydrocarbon fluid - petroleum - and is empty and NOT vented free of hydrocarbon gas.
There are two safe states for a tank or space ... to be fully vented of petroleum vapours or full of petroleum fluid that creates an over-rich atmosphere.
So in fact his outboard being empty of fuel is a tank that = a potential bomb.
I will concede the one fact that he will avoid "spillage or leaks" of fuel from any faulty fuel valve or line / non-empty carb etc. But generally those amounts are so small and don't "flow" into bilges to create hazard ... generally they wet the surface where they fall and evaporate off harmlessly.
If this was not true - then we would never carry a petrol can as spare in a locker / car / whatever ....
I also despair at the people who consider a common available gasoline can as fluid or air-tight ... they are certainly not. Only the type with the over-centre locking cap as seen on back of Land-Rovers etc. are even close to such.
My biz is to oversee quality of fuels - that means we have to sample and transport fuels in such way that NO vapour or component is lost before analysis in my lab ... means specially designed cans for the job .. in fact normally glass bottles ........ with insert plugs and then self sealing screw caps.
Som please where is the vapour proof / gasoline safe system ?
There are two safe states for a tank or space ... to be fully vented of petroleum vapours or full of petroleum fluid that creates an over-rich atmosphere.
So in fact his outboard being empty of fuel is a tank that = a potential bomb.
I will concede the one fact that he will avoid "spillage or leaks" of fuel from any faulty fuel valve or line / non-empty carb etc. But generally those amounts are so small and don't "flow" into bilges to create hazard ... generally they wet the surface where they fall and evaporate off harmlessly.
If this was not true - then we would never carry a petrol can as spare in a locker / car / whatever ....
I also despair at the people who consider a common available gasoline can as fluid or air-tight ... they are certainly not. Only the type with the over-centre locking cap as seen on back of Land-Rovers etc. are even close to such.
My biz is to oversee quality of fuels - that means we have to sample and transport fuels in such way that NO vapour or component is lost before analysis in my lab ... means specially designed cans for the job .. in fact normally glass bottles ........ with insert plugs and then self sealing screw caps.
Som please where is the vapour proof / gasoline safe system ?
EdEssery
Well-Known Member
It's a 4 stroke outboard and has a fuel tank no greater than 1 litre in capacity. The game plan is to stow it upright (i.e. standing on the leg) in the lazarette with the fuel cap and breather closed (obviously). The question is what mechanisms have people come up with for keeping them upright.
The lazarette is open to the bilges and thus to the open air.
The 5L plastic fuel can will be in the anchor locker which drains overboard.
Ed
The lazarette is open to the bilges and thus to the open air.
The 5L plastic fuel can will be in the anchor locker which drains overboard.
Ed
