Stop knocking Bavaria .... lets pick on the French!

[ProMariner]

It's funny, reading this thread, first made me think, big deal, every boat manufacturer and nation has the potential to build a bad boat, so what.

But with Bavarians, the complaint is always 'flimsy', where as with every other manufacturer, it's 'silly buggers cocked up the design/build', so I read into this, that bavs are at least consistently put together. Given they have never tried to be north west passage makers, at least the laminators didn't try to fit one more rudder blade in before knock off on a Friday, the plumber didn't get confused and start drilling a thru hull in the wrong place, and the guy testing the electrics did use a check list?

All good for ease of ownership, as long as you are not in the habit of running into lots of things, berthing in exposed stuff, and have no need to keep tweaking your sail trim to the n'th degree?

Just asking, have never/will never own a cruising boat, have sampled many, and have always found quality of care of ownership to be the more important part of the yachts 'health scale', than the nationality of the guy who screwed it together.

 

[Sybarite]

Now, If you an tell me any French boat that is a total dogs ear I would quiet happily knock it...

As long as you are quiet about it, that'll be OK.

 

[Nostrodamus]

As long as you are quiet about it, that'll be OK.

Me, quiet, OK I will whisper and maybe you can put me right on the points I am wrong on.
When we were in France for six months or so I found that almost everything was French. I know that sounds silly but as part of the EU there is supposed to be an open market yet the French put so many obstacles in the way of imports it was almost impossible to get goods in or sell them at a competitive price.
In the same way they were underhand about the boating industry. Whilst EU agreed that the governments should not help the industry the French government were supporting the boating industry. Many firms, including a lot of British ones went under where as the French boats flourished.
As always with the French it seems to be no rules for them but complain if another country does not adhere to policy.
Maybe the UK are the stupid ones as we like rules and we like sticking to them.
As I say, I may be wrong but that is the impression I got when there.

 

[pathfinderstu]

looking round 2nd hand boats of 40/45 ft range in my price range it was a choice between Bavaria/jeannaeu or beneteau.
I liked the Bavaria interior finish the woodwork seemed better. but I did not like the Volvo engine or sail drive. could not find a jeanneau so opted for beneteau with yanmar engine and shaft drive to prop. am very happy chappy now!

 

[Simondjuk]

...as long as you are not in the habit of running into lots of things, berthing in exposed stuff, and have no need to keep tweaking your sail trim to the n'th degree..

Why would a Bav cope any less well with any of those things than any other marque? I've seen Arconas written off by modest groundings, Rassys blown onto the beach and rubbish sail trim on multi-million pound thoroughbreds.

 

[Simondjuk]

Now, If you an tell me any French boat that is a total dogs ear I would quiet happily knock it...

I can offer a mid 2000s 3 month old Beneteau with almost terminal osmosis and delamination. Or a late 2000s Sense from the same stable which popped most of its grid off the hull in a grounding.

 

[trapezeartist]

I've long since stopped bothering about the Bavaria-knockers. They're just blokes with small willies who have to try to justify themselves somehow. I know what's good (a lot) and what's bad (not much) on my Bavaria, and that will do for me.

 

[Simondjuk]

I'm actually beginning to think that Bavs are rather like cheap but well proven anchors. Those who spent three times as much on essentially the same thing which offers the same performance but has a 'reputed' badge, perhaps feel just a trifle silly.

Jus' sayin'.

 

[Tranona]

I'm actually beginning to think that Bavs are rather like cheap but well proven anchors. Those who spent three times as much on essentially the same thing which offers the same performance but has a 'reputed' badge, perhaps feel just a trifle silly.

Jus' sayin'.

Many a true word spoken ....etc. Especially when you see some of the difficulties people encounter when buying so called "quality" products, although they tend to keep quiet about it. Having seen some of the bills I don't blame them!

 

[Lakesailor]

Why has this thread been centred about the country of origin. What does that have to do with design, quality and reliability?

 

[Simondjuk]

I hadn't noticed that to be the case. I run two French cars, so I may be a glutton for entertaining quirks, but certainly no biggot.

 

[Sybarite]

When we were in France for six months or so I found that almost everything was French. I know that sounds silly but as part of the EU there is supposed to be an open market yet the French put so many obstacles in the way of imports it was almost impossible to get goods in or sell them at a competitive price.

This hoary old one again... I would love you to give me one example of an obstacle to imports that the France imposes, that other countries don't. Just one.

In the same way they were underhand about the boating industry. Whilst EU agreed that the governments should not help the industry the French government were supporting the boating industry. Many firms, including a lot of British ones went under where as the French boats flourished.

Ditto.

Maybe the French boating industry did well because (1) they sold boats that people wanted and not ones that the purists thought they should have and (2), they adapted production methods to the higher output, thus bringing down unit costs for a given item.

 

[Nostrodamus]

We were there six months which is not long granted. If you did wasnt to buy any food stuffs from the UK they were put in a special section in the supermarkets and the prices were so inflated that no one bought them. The cost of transporting them from the UK was no where near the extra price margins they imposed.
Our French friend also wanted to import a British sports car and was telling me that because of the paperwork it was almost impossible for him. When you see the cars in France they are 90% French.
Can you tell me the French government did not financially support the makers of the various French boats. I believe they did this creatively by subsidising the workers to protect their jobs?
Hence the French boating industry were able to thrive in a time most other manufacturers were going under.
I agree they have some good ideas and they have a huge market in France but the Government still helped unlike our own.
As I say I stand to be corrected but all I can do is say what I saw and was told.

 

[OldBawley]

Monemvasia, north wind 32 kn. Six yachts anchored nose in wind and stern to outside quay wall. 0,3 miles fetch to “ The Rock “ so no big waves, severe gusts.
What all had feared happens. A Bav with “*** charters “ printed on its boom arrives and wants to moor in a small space in the middle of the pack. The old classic who left there just before had problems ( Anchor dragging, then spaghetti ) The people who cleared the problems are still liking there wounds.
Bav comes in with great speed due to wind, cant get the nose round as he wants, gets tangled with keel and rudder in the taut anchor chains. Drops anchor 50 feet from quay, windage blows nose to quay, in panic they back up. Black smoke. Bav is blown onto the corner of the harbour entrance and the nose of a beautiful owner yacht.
Helpful hands bring out a kedge, keep the Bavaria from making more damage. Steering broken ( while manoeuvring trough the bar tout chains ) lots of chipped fibreglass.
Other yachts would had been holed. My old 8 ton wooden egg would not survive the pounding against a concrete quay corner.
A mechanic is called, the Russian family with two small kids have fun already, Then comes the next charter. Eeeeek....

 

[Sailfree]

Can you tell me the French government did not financially support the makers of the various French boats. I believe they did this creatively by subsidising the workers to protect their jobs?
Hence the French boating industry were able to thrive in a time most other manufacturers were going under.

I believe the French encouraged the charter market in any French area (including the French islands in the Caribbean) to buy French boat cheaply due to tax concessions. The UK tax authorities have changed the rule of dealing with depreciating asset making it uneconomic to buy any boat for the UK charter market. This cost me £10,000 in charges and NO new boats have joined the charter company I am with for the last 6yrs

The UK allowed their last volume car marker to be sold to 3 asset strippers who lined their pension pots and let it go bust and the remnants sold to the Chinese. Can you imagine the French allowing this?

Today Sunseeker sold to the Chinese. How soon before nearly all production shifts to China. Would the French allow this?

Personally I despair of the UK attitudes and where are our children are going to find employment and I think we have a lot to learn from the French. We should applaud them and copy them not criticise.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

It's largely to do with the exchange rate. Surprisingly you do see old Rovers in France that were sold before the £ rocketed in the Blair era. Not many Ben/Jen/Bavs are being imported to UK at the moment-compare with pre 2008-comparatively more expensive now. And now Gunfleet and GT yachts starting up. As long as the £ stays low manufacturing in this country will revive. To those in the South East, welcome to the real world. The so called recession has been with the rest of the UK since the early 1990's. and those parts have bumped along the bottom whilst the overbloated financial and service sector kept the £ artificially high and strangled manufacturing.

 

[Sybarite]

We were there six months which is not long granted. If you did wasnt to buy any food stuffs from the UK they were put in a special section in the supermarkets and the prices were so inflated that no one bought them. The cost of transporting them from the UK was no where near the extra price margins they imposed.

Here we are talking about a supermarket's pricing policy for speciality, low volume imported products; hardly state discrimination.

Our French friend also wanted to import a British sports car and was telling me that because of the paperwork it was almost impossible for him.

He went to the wrong place. This is our neighbour's activity.

When you see the cars in France they are 90% French.

May 2013 car registrations:

76081 52.4% French manufactured cars (although under 'French' you also have Romanian Dacia sales.)
72046 48.6% Foreign manufactured cars
--------
148127

Can you tell me the French government did not financially support the makers of the various French boats. I believe they did this creatively by subsidising the workers to protect their jobs?

All governments (including the UK) provide regional development support for new investment in a regional zone, but not for established industries.

Hence the French boating industry were able to thrive in a time most other manufacturers were going under.

They were able to thrive because they realized that the charter industry would be preponderant where eg works committees or groups of students would charter boats for say a long week-end.
The demand was to be able to lodge a large crew for a short period of time where most nights were spent in port. They consequently placed things like stowage space, lee cloths and "proper" sea berths - all things that are sancrosanct in the UK - to the back of the stage.

People like Bénéteau, who had been building trawlers for nearly a century before branching out into pleasure boating, were among the first to see the industrial advantages of building in GRP. They got their act in order and had had very competent management. Annette Roux, André Bénéteau's daughter and until recently boss of Bénéteau was also vice President of the Medef: the French equivalent of the CBI.

They used chain line production methods to produce quality boats at an economic price. If you take say Southerly/Fisher, would you be willing to pay twice the price to get on the water compared with an equivalent sized French boat? For those who say they appreciate "quality", well, Bénéteau has speciality companies which can provide that if necessary. The way Volkswagen also owns Bentley.

I agree they have some good ideas and they have a huge market in France but the Government still helped unlike our own.

Examples?

 

[uxb]

Today Sunseeker sold to the Chinese. How soon before nearly all production shifts to China. Would the French allow this?

Personally I despair of the UK attitudes and where are our children are going to find employment and I think we have a lot to learn from the French. We should applaud them and copy them not criticise.

Exactly. The Danes as well as the French buy locally instead of the cheapest so there will be jobs for their children. People in this country are selling the future to save a few quid.

Pathetic.

 

[SamanthaTabs]

Confused, nothing unusual for me.. "France was so french"??
Anyhow, why wouldn't foreign products be put in a special section? In the UK genuine Chinese products are not usually stuck between Uncle Bens sweet/sour cook in sauce and cost is much higher, real Italian dried porcini another example.
I can't imagine looking for English products abroad when there's an abundance of local produce, especially when I find things I've never seen before - all part of the adventure.
Stuffed courgette flowers in Sardinia for example, in the tinned section they did have baked beans...
May have gone out on a tangent here but most liveaboards find the longer they cruise and don't limit themselves to creating ex-pat type communities the less they miss Picallili. (Actually I lie so learnt to make it)

 

[DownWest]

The only thing that you can't get from a French company is decent tea. So one has to get it from the English section of the S/market.