Steelboats

[Brent Swain]

I saw a Whitholtz designed Departure 35 yesterday a design I have always admired for it's single chine simplicity and practicality.
I did see a few changes I would suggest.Instead of high cabin sides and flat cabin top ,lower cabin sides and more camber on top would be an improvement. When I began putting an extra inch of camber in cabin tops they became much stiffer,and easier to keep fair. Building the bulwark separate is a lot of work for nothing , compared to simply extending the hull plate higher to become bulwarks and capping it with stainless or galv pipe.
the 3/4 inch rudder pins seems bit small, compared to the 1 1/4 inch ones I have been using. 1 1/4inbch ones ( 32mm) fit perfectly in 1 1/2 inch plastic hose barbs, which make great rudder bearings.My boats have circumnavigated with them , with no sign of wear . They fit nicely in 1 1/2 inch ss sch 40 pipe pintles,.which I wrap with mild steel ,to avoid depending on stainless for reliability , structurally.
Oh ya, now I remember! "3/4 inch "approved " is stronger than 1 1/4 shaft, if it hasn't been "approved", according to my critics ?
Ya sure!

 

[Brent Swain]

Canadian Coast Guard does courtesy safety inspections. Have you ever had one?

They love my boats .Some own them. I have worked for them.

 

[Daydream believer]

They love my boats .Some own them. I have worked for them.

Work??
What is that Brent?

 

[bbg]

They love my boats .Some own them. I have worked for them.

Doesn't answer my question. Have you had a CCG courtesy safety inspection?

 

[bbg]

I saw a Whitholtz designed Departure 35 yesterday a design I have always admired for it's single chine simplicity and practicality.
I did see a few changes I would suggest.Instead of high cabin sides and flat cabin top ,lower cabin sides and more camber on top would be an improvement. When I began putting an extra inch of camber in cabin tops they became much stiffer,and easier to keep fair. Building the bulwark separate is a lot of work for nothing , compared to simply extending the hull plate higher to become bulwarks and capping it with stainless or galv pipe.
the 3/4 inch rudder pins seems bit small, compared to the 1 1/4 inch ones I have been using. 1 1/4inbch ones ( 32mm) fit perfectly in 1 1/2 inch plastic hose barbs, which make great rudder bearings.My boats have circumnavigated with them , with no sign of wear . They fit nicely in 1 1/2 inch ss sch 40 pipe pintles,.which I wrap with mild steel ,to avoid depending on stainless for reliability , structurally.
Oh ya, now I remember! "3/4 inch "approved " is stronger than 1 1/4 shaft, if it hasn't been "approved", according to my critics ?
Ya sure!

You must have a very sore shoulder, Brent.

 

[rotrax]

You must have a very sore shoulder, Brent.

From carrying the MASSIVE chip, I imagine.......................................

 

[bbg]

From carrying the MASSIVE chip, I imagine.......................................

From patting himself on the back ...

 

[Brent Swain]

Work??
What is that Brent?

My most humble apologies for using such a crude , vulgar, 4 letter word ( flashback to a misspent past.(PTSD?)

 

[Brent Swain]

It is a bit sad, but I feel the idea that BS is getting on a bit and is spending his time trying to convince himself that he has the ideal life. Constant repetition about how good it is and how he knows better than 99.9% of boatowners, which he 'proves' by misrepresenting events, or just making them up. It can't go on forever and will likely end uncomfortably. The more he slags off other people and their ways of life, the more he demonstrates his own insecurities.

Yes, I can just imagine those people in traffic jams , coughing in other people's exhaust fumes, going to work, to pay bank interest ,saying:
"It could be far worse. We could be like Brent , still sleeping for another hour or two ,no alarm cock to wake him up and order him to go take orders from someone else on how to spend his day. Poor guy only wakes up when he feels like waking up, and does only what he feels like, the entire day. What a a miserable way to live!"
LOL!
I can just picture them taking a lot of abuse from a power tripping boss, or others above them in the pecking order, thinking:
"It could be far worse! I could be like Brent .He doesn't even have a boss, or a pecking order! He has to make his own decision on what to do , no one to tell him what to do! What a miserable way to live!"
LOL!
They must be thinking : "Brent was on his way to cruise the S Pacific in his own yacht , in his early 20s, when he could have stayed home and paid bank debts instead . Brent never had a penny of bank debt in his life, the poor, deprived soul. Man, who would want to be doing that in his early 20s, when he could have been working, and being told what to do, instead ? Sure glad I don't take his advice, or I could be doing he same thing , horror of horrors.
That must have been horrible ."
LOL!
Reminds me of the time Bob Perry said I was jealous of him ,while I was laying on Cuban beaches, and he was snowbound in his shack in the frozen north, surrounded by a half meter of snow. Ya , I was sure wishing I was there, instead of Cuba, Bob! Good timing on that comment , Bob!
LOL!
A few days ago, I woke at the crack of 9:30 AM, to the sound of a huge group of dolphins at my stern, in a boiling feeding frenzy, feeding on herring. They continued on for an hour or more. You say I would have rather been at work, after being rudely woken by an alarm clock , telling me to get up and go, half asleep , instead if the above experience?
NOT A CHANCE!
LOL!
A couple of days later, two adult orcas surfaced along side the boat I was on, along with a baby orca . Then, I spotted a seal among them. They taunted and terrified the seal, with several very close passes, before eating him.
I asked , "Why didn't they just put him out of his misery, quickly?
Then, it a occurred to me.
They were trying to scare the crap out of him, as seal meat probably tastes better without the crap . Maybe it tastes better spiced with adrenalin.
And they say I must have been miserable, watching a live wildlife show, more than I would have been at work?
Ya sure wish I had missed that .Wish I was at work instead!
LOL!
You guys are hilarious! Thanks for the daily laughs!
LOL!
Yes , this is truly a miserable life I live. Live blues in the bar tonite, and tomorrow nite, with some of the best guitar players anywhere. I'll be sitting there, wishing had to go to work early in the morning!
Ya Sure!
LOL!

 

[newtothis]

Yes, I can just imagine those people in traffic jams , coughing in other people's exhaust fumes, going to work, to pay bank interest ,saying:
"It could be far worse. We could be like Brent , still sleeping for another hour or two ,no alarm cock to wake him up and order him to go take orders from someone else on how to spend his day. Poor guy only wakes up when he feels like waking up, and does only what he feels like, the entire day. What a a miserable way to live!"
LOL!
I can just picture them taking a lot of abuse from a power tripping boss, or others above them in the pecking order, thinking:
"It could be far worse! I could be like Brent .He doesn't even have a boss, or a pecking order! He has to make his own decision on what to do , no one to tell him what to do! What a miserable way to live!"
LOL!
They must be thinking : "Brent was on his way to cruise the S Pacific in his own yacht , in his early 20s, when he could have stayed home and paid bank debts instead . Brent never had a penny of bank debt in his life, the poor, deprived soul. Man, who would want to be doing that in his early 20s, when he could have been working, and being told what to do, instead ? Sure glad I don't take his advice, or I could be doing he same thing , horror of horrors.
That must have been horrible ."
LOL!
Reminds me of the time Bob Perry said I was jealous of him ,while I was laying on Cuban beaches, and he was snowbound in his shack in the frozen north, surrounded by a half meter of snow. Ya , I was sure wishing I was there, instead of Cuba, Bob! Good timing on that comment , Bob!
LOL!
A few days ago, I woke at the crack of 9:30 AM, to the sound of a huge group of dolphins at my stern, in a boiling feeding frenzy, feeding on herring. They continued on for an hour or more. You say I would have rather been at work, after being rudely woken by an alarm clock , telling me to get up and go, half asleep , instead if the above experience?
NOT A CHANCE!
LOL!
A couple of days later, two adult orcas surfaced along side the boat I was on, along with a baby orca . Then, I spotted a seal among them. They taunted and terrified the seal, with several very close passes, before eating him.
I asked , "Why didn't they just put him out of his misery, quickly?
Then, it a occurred to me.
They were trying to scare the crap out of him, as seal meat probably tastes better without the crap . Maybe it tastes better spiced with adrenalin.
And they say I must have been miserable, watching a live wildlife show, more than I would have been at work?
Ya sure wish I had missed that .Wish I was at work instead!
LOL!
You guys are hilarious! Thanks for the daily laughs!
LOL!
Yes , this is truly a miserable life I live. Live blues in the bar tonite, and tomorrow nite, with some of the best guitar players anywhere. I'll be sitting there, wishing had to go to work early in the morning!
Ya Sure!
LOL!

Yeah, whatever, LOL.
You're still a Benefit Scrounger with a limited grip on reality.

 

[rotrax]

Yeah, whatever, LOL.
You're still a Benefit Scrounger with a limited grip on reality.

Well BS, I for one would not change my life for yours.

If I went tomorrow, I would be sad as I still have much to do and see.

But, if that came to pass, no regrets at all. I have enjoyed a fabulous life, and indeed, am still enjoying it.

As you have never experienced much of the way most on this planet pursue life you therefore have no idea of the physical and emotional bonds that normal humans have within family groups.

Your reasons for living the way you do are yours alone.

Again, in your narrative you belittle those who live differently to you. This does you no credit whatsoever.

Well BS, you are, IMHO, only on this forum for two reasons.

1. You are banned from the mainstream North American ones.

2. You have said all you have to say on the steel boat forums-probably more than once. Ergo, nothing more to say. For someone who likes the sound of his own voice, or its internet equivalent, that must be the kiss of death.

You are now sussed out here. A one trick pony.

Same as on SA.

I recall the headline when I thought I would look up one of your designs that was for sale. Very nice boat too.

The headline read:- " $H1t Brent Swain Says! "

And, IMHO, most of what you say can firmly be put into that exact catagory.

It appears many others worldwide agree with that........................

 

[Brent Swain]

Well BS, I for one would not change my life for yours.

If I went tomorrow, I would be sad as I still have much to do and see.

But, if that came to pass, no regrets at all. I have enjoyed a fabulous life, and indeed, am still enjoying it.

As you have never experienced much of the way most on this planet pursue life you therefore have no idea of the physical and emotional bonds that normal humans have within family groups.

Your reasons for living the way you do are yours alone.

Again, in your narrative you belittle those who live differently to you. This does you no credit whatsoever.

Well BS, you are, IMHO, only on this forum for two reasons.

1. You are banned from the mainstream North American ones.

2. You have said all you have to say on the steel boat forums-probably more than once. Ergo, nothing more to say. For someone who likes the sound of his own voice, or its internet equivalent, that must be the kiss of death.

You are now sussed out here. A one trick pony.

Same as on SA.

I recall the headline when I thought I would look up one of your designs that was for sale. Very nice boat too.

The headline read:- " $H1t Brent Swain Says! "

And, IMHO, most of what you say can firmly be put into that exact catagory.

It appears many others worldwide agree with that........................

Most in the industrialized world ,live lives which would take several more planets to sustain.Several Octobers ago, I read in National Geographic that the average western US house uses 350 gallons of water per day .How long would that much water last the average liveaboard. My electrical consumption was 1/10,000th that of the average house ,mostly made with solar panels and wind generator. Then along came LEDs, reducing that another ten fold. My heat source is mostly on the 300 meter diet, as is the seafood in my diet. Wood heat has zero global warming effect, as wood would produce the same greenhouse gas effect, if it were left to rot on the beach.
Hypocracy is claiming to be concerned about future generations while destroying their surviveability . Anyone who believes we can have infinite growth on a finite planet, is either insane, or an economist.
I was banned from other sites, because their sponsors can't afford to have someone telling people how to build better gear for a fraction the price they are charging.Nor can they afford to have their customers get off the treadmill early, and stop buying their gear.
I heard last nite on CBC radio about a quote from Aristotle.
Something like;
"If people were raised in prison, and thus knew nothing else, and one escaped, then returned to tell them about life outside , he would immediately be branded a liar ,ridiculed, and nothing he said would be believed"!
Kinda like talking of freedom, to people on the treadmill here!
Last summer ,I met a kid who had spent the summer here, and was talking about having to return to " reality."
I said "You have met a lot of people here, who live here year round and have chosen to make this their "reality.. You also have that option. Whoever owns the treadmill you are walking on, for their benefit, not yours, has a big financial stake in brainwashing you to believe his treadmill is the only "Reality" you have.

I'll take my reality over urban treadmill reality ( UBA- urban bran atrophy ) any time!

I cant think of anyone else on the planet I would change lives with. I live full time, in a place the rich save all year round, to spend 3 weeks in, and get paid more than I know how to spend, doing as I please , 12 months a year.

New Zealand ? Been there, done that. Some nice cruising, but very limited, compared to BC. Few protected waters mostly open roadstead. Very low wages means it was inaccessible, unless you brought a lot of money with you. I didn't ,and ended up hating it. Could have legally stayed there indefinitely . No thanks, came home, grateful to be home.

Being retired, with more money than I know how to spend ,I love it when one half wit talks another out of bothering me for plans , the kind of people who believe every misquote, deliberate lie ,and made up quote they read on the internet (as most of them are.) Then, I only have to deal with the intelligent, with far wiser results.
One half wit Tasmanian critic believed the lies, and decided to build a framed boat, using 1950s methods. Took him years to get to a point I reach in days. Ended up with a slow, tippy, cramped boat design which several of my clients have sold, to upgrade to one of mine.
Love it!
LOL!
Schadenfreude!

Several cruisers around here, after years of messing with plastic and wooden boats, are dreaming of steel, the kind of experienced people I prefer to deal with.
Most steel critics have no experience with a good, well built, and well detailed steel boat. The abysmally naive get their old wives tales, and misinformation from them.
I was just at a lecture on boat maintenance, from professional builders and yard owners ,who said "Don't let anyone tell you fibreglass doesn't deteriorate over time." which several rebuilding older boats have repeated to me, time and time again.

 

[Brent Swain]

I just read in the latest issue of 'Cruising Outpost" about a ship losing 270 containers in the North Sea, in one storm, many of which are still floating out there.I wouldn't want to be sailing in plastic boat at night in that mess. Sure, you could be lucky, and not hit one ,many are ,but good seamanship is not leaving that to luck. A good steel hull would have no problem in a collision with one of those containers.Not so, with most stock plastic boats.

That issue also contains an article about a couple who bought and refurbished an older 32 ft plastic boat. Took them 3 years of hard work , more by far than most building one of my boats from scratch. almost emptied their bank account. Then ,instead of new, they have fixed up" old."

 

[Brent Swain]

Yeah, whatever, LOL.
You're still a Benefit Scrounger with a limited grip on reality.

Love my reality, always have, far more than most treadmill walkers enjoy theirs( except those who neither know, nor can imagine any other.)

Ya, I feel real guilty of not leaving money for the govt to give to " multinational corporate benefit scroungers" .( like the $5 trillion to oil company," benefit scroungers.)"

 

[Brent Swain]

I read an interesting article on keel shapes in Latitude 48. Some racing boats have gained major improvements by rounding off sharp leading edges on keels. Seems that prevents stalling of sharp leading edges, in rough water, even broad reaching.
Some have questioned the 6 inch pipe on my single keels, for being too blunt. They would be ,if they were vertical, ,but cut one horizontally, parallel to the waterline, and you have an elipse equivalent to a 3 inch ran vertically .
I found a 6mm wall will collapse in a collision ,,even when filled with melted in lead, but not a 12mm wall thickness. For twin keels I use a solid shaft. Either will take a hull speed collision with a rock ,with no damage to them.

 

[Brent Swain]

Doesn't answer my question. Have you had a CCG courtesy safety inspection?

I think over 350,000 miles of open ocean cruising, over 40 years, with zero serious structural problems of any kind, is more accurate and relevant ,than the inspection of bureaucrats. Coast Guard inspections here only deal with safety gear. You can get that in their little booklet.
One of my 31 footers was stopped and checked by the US coast guard, off the Oregon coast.
They wrote on the paper they gave him:
"This is the best built small boat we have ever inspected."

 

[Brent Swain]

The MV Rena lost an estimated 900 containers when it ran aground and broke up off the coast of New Zealand in October 2011. Photo courtesy Maritime New Zealand.

 

[Fossil]

The MV Rena lost an estimated 900 containers when it ran aground and broke up off the coast of New Zealand in October 2011. Photo courtesy Maritime New Zealand.

Here's a quote from an authoritative source on the containers aboard the Rena from August 2012. See http://www.cargolaw.com/2011nightmare_mv_rena2.html#feb_5

Container Snapshot

1,368 containers on board M/V Rena at time of grounding
547 containers stored above deck at the time of grounding
821 containers stored below deck at time of grounding
121 containers with perishable foodstuffs
32 containers with dangerous goods
Approx 250 containers remain below decks on the severed bulk-head (bow section)

Unable to confirm how many containers remain on board sunken M/V Rena stern section
Estimated 98 containers (total) lost overboard before 8 January 2012
Estimated 150 containers lost overboard on 8 January 2012
584 containers processed on shore by Braemar Howells teams since container recovery began on November 16. 514 have been removed from M/V Rena by salvors and 70 recovered from the water and beaches.

248 containers lost overboard (NOT 900!). Subsequent salvage work has accounted for nearly all of Rena's cargo, all containers, even the sunk ones, are accounted for, the wreck has been made safe and is now a dive site. Millions of dollars were spent to make this happen and the implication that New Zealand would allow rogue containers to float off without any attempt to recover them is an insult to our society as a whole.

No containers from the Rena are bobbing around in the South Pacific waiting to strike unsuspecting boaties, whatever materials their hulls may be made from.

This thread seems to be kept going on the basis of fearmongering, fake news and general bullshit posted by one discredited individual. Time for it to be shut down, methinks.

 

[bbg]

This thread seems to be kept going on the basis of fearmongering, fake news and general bullshit posted by one discredited individual. Time for it to be shut down, methinks.

It is kept going by people responding to the fear mongering, fakery and general BS posted by one arrogant and offensive individual. If everyone stopped responding, the thread would die. Other than BS arguing with himself (which he seems to be doing the last week).

Let it die. Stop feeding the troll.

 

[Brent Swain]

Here's a quote from an authoritative source on the containers aboard the Rena from August 2012. See http://www.cargolaw.com/2011nightmare_mv_rena2.html#feb_5

. Millions of dollars were spent to make this happen and the implication that New Zealand would allow rogue containers to float off without any attempt to recover them is an insult to our society as a whole.
This thread seems to be kept going on the basis of fearmongering, fake news and general bullshit posted by one discredited individual..

Someonè "allowed"the the Titanic to sink?
Someone " àllowed`` hurricane Katrina to hit New Orleans?
It was not a case of allowing, it was a case of dumb luck that it hit where it could be salvaged, instead of Esperance rock, in the Kermadecs, or Minerva reef .
900 was the number given in the article I read on the Metal Boat society forum on facebook.

"Discredited "by who? A guy who charges $175 an hour for advice on what he has never done , ocean cruising , steel boat building, living aboard and maintaining for decades any small steel boat, Bob Perry and his harem of trolling groupies? People selling very expensive gear, who don't want people to know of better, more affordable alternatives? "Discredited" by those on other sites, who have zero steel boat building, ocean cruising ,long term steel boat maintenance or living aboard experience?
A common theme here, is,"if you see someone doing things the hard way , and have experienced decades of doing it a far better, simpler, and more affordable way, don't tell them. That would be arrogant. Be humble, and just let them screw up?"
If you see someone heading for a financial cliff , don't warn them; that would be arrogant . .Just be nice, and humble, and let them go over the cliff.

Another theme here, is listing advantages of steel over plastic is a no no.
Only disadvantages of steel are allowed here. Only disinformation on this is allowed. Experience based honesty , is rude!
Only orthodoxy is allowed here?