Steelboats

[DownWest]

Yes plastic is adequate; for the infallible! All humans screw up, sometimes. Are you claiming to be infallible, super human? We mere mortals, unlike you, have to allow for the rare chance of a screwup, and don't passively accept a death sentence, for both us and any crew aboard, as a fair and unavoidable consequence of a screwup, on anyone's part . That would not only be bad seamanship, but a just plain loony tune way of thinking ( for us mere mortals). The delusion of infallibility didn't work out so well for the Sleavin family, and we will never know, how many others. Its that kind of forgiveness, which gives the not so naive, such peace of mind, while cruising in a steel boat.
Building your own, is the only way to really know how things were put together.
Its appalling how boats friends here bought, "professionally built" , were put together. They encounter a steady stream of unimaginably dense screwups.

Building your own also means mostly new hull and deck material, something you don't get with a used boat. It also means stepping away from the personal uselessness of those who only buy things, while enviously attacking, and ridiculing those capable of doing things for themselves.

Several, building my boats , have gone on to lifetime careers in boat work and metal working.

Brent, give the rest of the world a break and get some mental help.
You keep coming back and quoting the same old stories to promote your style of building. The Sleavins.. Yes, they got hit by a ship. That is the only fact. You use it to sell your style of building steel boats. Reality is, they suffered what ever the material was and there is no way of knowing if a steel hull would have saved them. But that doesn't worry you in your strange world, were all real designers and builders are con artists, bent on ripping off people who might like to get out sailing.

You contradict yourself in the last paragraph about building your own. Previously you proudly crowed about how little you paid for used sails and other kit, while ignoring that someone paid full price for them when new, so effectivly subsidising your 'free' lifestyle. But, of course, you hold them in contempt for being conned.
Take a long look at yourself and what you are saying, it is not very attractive to others.
The real reason you are being questioned is not about 'steel boats' but your attitude to just about every other sailing person and your rubbishing of their views.
And, quoting your websites like 'origami boats' etc is a bit rich, as anybody who doesn't drink your coolaid gets booted off them pretty quick. So much for open discussion.

Edit: I expect the people who have gone on to careers after building your boats have had to face up to the realities of real life and running a business and charging the market rate, while paying their taxes.

 

[Brent Swain]

Brent, give the rest of the world a break and get some mental help.
You keep coming back and quoting the same old stories to promote your style of building. The Sleavins.. Yes, they got hit by a ship. That is the only fact. You use it to sell your style of building steel boats. Reality is, they suffered what ever the material was and there is no way of knowing if a steel hull would have saved them. But that doesn't worry you in your strange world, were all real designers and builders are con artists, bent on ripping off people who might like to get out sailing.


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The Gringo incident clearly points out what would have happened to the Sleavin's boat. had it been steel.
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You contradict yourself in the last paragraph about building your own. Previously you proudly crowed about how little you paid for used sails and other kit, while ignoring that someone paid full price for them when new, so effectivly subsidising your 'free' lifestyle.

But, of course, you hold them in contempt for being conned.
Take a long look at yourself and what you are saying, it is not very attractive to others.
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What do you call someone who uses what others have scrapped while it still has a lot of life left in it? "Environmentally responsible!"
What do you call someone who scraps what has a lot of life left in it? "Environmentally irresposible!"
No, I don't feel at all guilty, for not taking part in your culture of squanderism, the moral obligation to squander, and to live a lifestyle which would take several more planets to sustain., I am entitled to the benefits of my own resourcefullness, even if it does undermine the power money gives some, by making their money ( their god) less relevant in my life.
LOL!
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The real reason you are being questioned is not about 'steel boats' but your attitude to just about every other sailing person and your rubbishing of their views.
And, quoting your websites like 'origami boats' etc is a bit rich, as anybody who doesn't drink your coolaid gets booted off them pretty quick. So much for open discussion.
______________________________________________________________________________
No posts relevant to the subject on orgamiboats has been deleted.Perry's relevant posts are still there. Only the ones irrelevant to the subject were deleted, only the ones trying to sabotage the discussion, having nothing to do with boats , as he has used to sabotage any other discussion of steel boats, on other sites.
__________________________________________________________________________________ boats have had to face up to the realities of real life and running a business and charging the market rate, while paying their taxes.

Real life is what I have been living. I have always charged jorneyman's wages, and paid all taxes owed , which is none, below a certain income level. My resourceful life style has let me live like a king, on very little, drastically reducing my personal environmental impact , the rewards for which I am entirely entitled to.
Your theme has always been "restrict the good life to only the rich, and force the poor to sacrifice our pleasure for theirs."
Screw that!
You try accomplish that , by attacking any suggestion of more affordable (and usually better) ways of doing things, with your disinformation campaign on that subject.
The staunchest advocates of the puritan work ethic ,are those who don't do any real work ,but use other's work to pad their nests.
LOL!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Seamanship BEGINS with choice of hull material.

So when you wrote that steel is "sometimes safer that GRP", when were you thinking that GRP would be safer than steel?

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

So when you wrote that steel is "sometimes safer that GRP", when were you thinking that GRP would be safer than steel?

I think what he meant was that a lot of the time grp can be equally safe but sometimes steel is safer. That would be when there are partially submerged containers about etc.

 

[Brent Swain]

So when you wrote that steel is "sometimes safer that GRP", when were you thinking that GRP would be safer than steel?

A good steel boat is always safer than a plastic boat.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

A good steel boat is always safer than a plastic boat.

A good plastic boat is better than a tin can.

 

[rotrax]

A good steel boat is always safer than a plastic boat.

Trouble is Brent, GOOD steel boats are in a minority-most that I see, perhaps 60%, are rusty clunkers.

As I said previously, a steel ketch in Evans Bay Marina is about to have the windlass fall through the foredeck.

A new really nice one has appeared in Portsmouth Harbour, making 5 nice ones and a dozen rusty clunkers.

To plagarise an American auto cynic, the noisiest thing in Portsmouth Harbour is the sound of the steel boats rusting away....................

 

[Brent Swain]

A good plastic boat is better than a tin can.

Yes, and a good steel boat is better than either .

 

[Brent Swain]

Trouble is Brent, GOOD steel boats are in a minority-most that I see, perhaps 60%, are rusty clunkers.

As I said previously, a steel ketch in Evans Bay Marina is about to have the windlass fall through the foredeck.

A new really nice one has appeared in Portsmouth Harbour, making 5 nice ones and a dozen rusty clunkers.

To plagarise an American auto cynic, the noisiest thing in Portsmouth Harbour is the sound of the steel boats rusting away....................

Good plastic boat are a tiny minority around here. A friend just gave up on her stock plastic boat. Rotted out plywood core, rotten bulkheads , no directional stability whatever, thru hull problems , deck leak problems ,hull- deck joint problems, compression post failure under the mast, common ailments among most "for sale" stock plastic boats around here. Many are being abandoned.

I just saw another example of Perry's work, a Valiant 40 in the harbour ( which, typically ,hasn't left the dock in almost a year.) Blisters from bow to stern .She was drooling far more rust from under a rub strake than any of the steel boats around here. The owner took one side off, and there were 52 , 3/8th inch holes drilled in an otherwise watertight hull. That makes 104 useless and uneccesary holes in total, both sides combined,with rusty bolts poking out of them. I have been hired to remove a lot of such useless rubstrakes from hulls, over the years, as the owners gain experience in how useless they really are. Such screwups are what you can expect from an advice source with no real hands on cruising experience. ( $175 an hour advice!)
Common on many stock plastic boats.

 

[Brent Swain]

Low maintenance plastic boat, breaking up under its own weight, on soft mud , zero wave action.

 

[Brent Swain]

Another low maintenance plastic boat!

 

[JumbleDuck]

A good steel boat is always safer than a plastic boat.

That's not what you wrote before. How are you defining "good"?

 

[JumbleDuck]

View attachment 77448

Another low maintenance plastic boat!

Couple of hours with a pressure washer and that one would be fine.

 

[john_morris_uk]

https://images.app.goo.gl/FkgSFvZW4G9HsWgG9

A good steel boat?

 

[rotrax]

Good plastic boat are a tiny minority around here. A friend just gave up on her stock plastic boat. Rotted out plywood core, rotten bulkheads , no directional stability whatever, thru hull problems , hull- deck joint problems, compression post failure under the mast, common ailments among most "for sale" stock plastic boats around here. Many are being abandoned.

I just saw another example of Perry's work, a Valiant 40 in the harbour ( which, typically ,hasn't left the dock in almost a year.) Blisters from bow to stern .She was drooling far more rust from under a rub strake than any of the steel boats around here. The owner took one side off, and there were 52 , 3/8th inch holes drilled in an otherwise watertight hull. That makes 104 useless and uneccesary holes in total, both sides combined,with rusty bolts poking out of them. I have been hired to remove a lot of such useless rubstrakes from hulls, over the years, as the owners gain experience in how useless they really are. Such screwups are what you can expect from an advice source with no real hands on cruising experience. ( $175 an hour advice!)
Common on many stock plastic boats.

You will not find ANY of those faults on my stock GRP boat, or on the three previous ones.

The most maintenance intensive boat I have ever owned is my steel Hartley 32.

Fact. And a fact from direct and current experience.

 

[Brent Swain]

You will not find ANY of those faults on my stock GRP boat, or on the three previous ones.

The most maintenance intensive boat I have ever owned is my steel Hartley 32.

Fact. And a fact from direct and current experience.

Yes, screw up on the paint job, and detailing, and a steel boat will be a nightmare , just like the nightmares on the plastic boats I mentioned. Get it wrong on any boat, and you will have nightmare, regardless of material. Get a steel boat right, and it can be very low maintenance.
Keep touching up the dings on a steel boat, as they happen , a couple of hours a year, and maintenance is no problem. Let then get away on you, and you definitely will have maintenance problems, just as with any boat, made of any material. 2 hours or so a year is well worth it, for the peace of mind a steel hull gives me while cruising on a dark, moonless night. Given what I have hit at night , I wouldn't be here, had I been in a plastic boat. No, they were not on the chart! No, I couldn't stay awake for the weeks at sea those passages took!
Yes Rotax, your paint job was obviously a screwup, from the outset,or you wouldn't have had such a problem with it.
Did your steel boat have wood ( dead vegetation) bolted on the outside of her?

 

[Brent Swain]

That's not what you wrote before. How are you defining "good"?

Properly built, steel boat appropriate detailing, properly epoxied inside and out. Well maintained. A well proven design, well proven over decades, and tens of thousands of open ocean miles, along with some extreme torture test survivals.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Get a steel boat right, and it can be very low maintenance.
Keep touching up the dings on a steel boat, as they happen , a couple of hours a year, and maintenance is no problem. Let then get away on you, and you definitely will have maintenance problems, just as with any boat, made of any material. 2 hours or so a year...

Those of us who have hands on experience of steel boats recognise fantasy for what it is.

No one in the world has a steel boat and sails her regularly and only spends two hours a year on maintenance of the paint.

Brent’s clocks seem to run at a different rate to the rest of us. It must be the same clock he uses when fabricating Heath Robinson bits for his boat that are claimed to be so much better than anyone else’s.

 

[jordanbasset]

Agree with the last, a while ago there was a steel boat on the pontoon where I used to keep my previous boat.
To be fair it was in very good condition but every couple of weeks he was painting one part or the other. I would imagine over the year it must have added upto well over 100 hours, taking into consideration the preparation as well.
This is in addition to the normal maintenance any boat requires

 

[TSB240]

This one is in need of constant monitoring.........https://www.facebook.com/231121433593809/posts/2246471258725473/.