Steelboats

[GHA]

Steel boat owners of mature craft will be worried about where the pick lands.

Why??

That's close to a test not uncommon to check the hull is OK in the bilges, centre punch and a hefty blow with a big lump hammer. If it bounces off then all should be well, if not then you've done something wrong like letting water get inside the boat and need to get the grinder out and weld in a bit of plate. This I know.......

Best done out of the water...

 

[rotrax]

Yes, it takes a lot of offshore cruising off the beaten path, to fully realize the benefits of steel. Pity it has such a poor retained value in the used boat market.

There, Brent-I've put in the bit you left out.

 

[rotrax]

Didn't I read about a GRP yacht that left its keel wedged into some rocks west of the Silly Isles. I believe the skipper was completely unaware and the boat sailed for several more trips until the fact was discovered.

I don't suppose a concrete breakwater counts as hard enough, nor the video of the 36' GRP boat being sailed into it at hull speed counts for much either. Then there is the GRP yacht being repeatedly slammed into the stone breakwater in significant sea's until it was pulled off by a rescue boat on YT. It didn't sink, so that won't count.

I seem to remember watching the YBW team try to hole some GRP boat for a flooding piece they were doing. The methods they had to resort to, in order to punch a hole in an ostensibly flimsy GRP boat showed just how ignorant very seasoned sailors can be regarding GRP.

No boat is guaranteed immune to rocks, including steel.

IIRC The boat was a charter boat and was returned by the charterer and his deposit refunded as there was no obvious damage to the vessel. The next charterer took it out, hoisted the sails, found it very tender, took it back where it was lifted and the keel was found to be missing. The previous charterer did later admit to " Touching the bottom gently "

But, the boat did not leak or sink-or, AFAIK, let in any water.

I have tested poor quality and very thin GRP to destruction many times-the fairings on racing motorcycles were made of it-still are in some cases, but far better quality now than in the 60's to 80's when I was using it. It can be surprisingly strong. A pickaxe, unless the tip was sharpened like an ice axe, would just bounce off a GRP yacht hull. It would damage the gelcoat. The YBW team, pics by Snooks, worked very hard to damage the hull.

But Brent wont be interested. It does not fit his agenda................................

 

[rotrax]

I cant reply properly to your post 857 as, once again, you have messed about with the quote function.

However, I have found some stuff on Sailing anarchy which confirms my view of you and your boating and life philosophy. :-

Brent Swain is a populist type boat designer who appears actually to spend time on a functioning boat, which should gain him some admiration here. He lives cheaply, bodging together scrap metal gear and prefers age tested plywood he finds drifting , since its stronger than new which might delaminate. A post apocolypse type mad max boatbuilder who is unsure why a world still enjoying civilisation does'nt prefer his boats to those designed and built by skilled shipwrights.
His fatal flaws are mind numbing repetition and inability to see the merit of other views and crafts.

Seems pretty accurate so far...............................................

Just found a reply to that from another poster. It reads:-

I engaged him politely, expressing respect for some of his abilities and points of view, while suggesting that he might win a few more converts if he was not so scornful of the rest of the planet.
A total failure on my part. He cant even tell when someone is trying to be nice to him. That's a lot of angst!

 

[rotrax]

On a lighter note, went for a sail on " Ella ", our Hartley 32 in steel, in Wellington Harbour today, checking out systems and the reefing gear-Its got a revolving boom for reefing. We have no experience of this method and have not needed to reef on previous sails-for Wellington, the previous sails have been in light winds.

All good, with a clean bottom she went surprisingly well upwind with full main and genoa, we then put the genoa away and gybed off downwind under main alone. Then the main was reefed to the second reef and half the genoa used, all good, still going well with increasing winds. Put the genoa away and came back downwind-gusting 25 knots-under reefed main.

Well pleased, our hard work has paid off. She looks well, only the flush deck and cockpit need painting now, a job for November when we return.

Bit concerned with the very heavy tiller under engine-its fine sailing. Going astern it caught First Mate out, trapping her in a corner! I suspect the rudder is a bit on the large side.

 

[dom]

On a lighter note, went for a sail on " Ella ", our Hartley 32 in steel, in Wellington Harbour today,

...and on an even lighter note us lot can go sailing on the Solent in 18C this week, perhaps even a tad warmer than Wellington

 

[newtothis]

for Wellington, the previous sails have been in light winds.

How can we trust anything you say when you make outrageous statements like this about Wellington's weather.

 

[rotrax]

...and on an even lighter note us lot can go sailing on the Solent in 18C this week, perhaps even a tad warmer than Wellington

About the same-20 degrees today, but we had a bit of a Southerly at the weekend which dropped it to 16-17.

First day of Autumn here tomorrow, but weather looking good for the coming weekend.

 

[bbg]

Why??

That's close to a test not uncommon to check the hull is OK in the bilges, centre punch and a hefty blow with a big lump hammer. If it bounces off then all should be well, if not then you've done something wrong like letting water get inside the boat and need to get the grinder out and weld in a bit of plate. This I know.......

Best done out of the water...

I think your story illustrates the point very well - that it matters where the pick lands.

 

[GHA]

I think your story illustrates the point very well - that it matters where the pick lands.

Think your missing the point, any steel boat owner who who knows his boat and kept on top on maintenance will know already that it doesn't matter where the pick lands, it will bounce off.

"Steel boat owners of mature craft will be worried about where the pick lands." is rubbish, only if it hasn't been looked after and badly built in the first place.

 

[bbg]

Could a lightweight GRP race boat survive a week of being pounded by the Atlantic surf and then get forcibly dragged off the beach with no damage whatsoever?

No way. It couldn't possibly happen, could it?



Oh wait, it did. I guess GRP is stronger than BS thinks it is.

 

[dom]

Could a lightweight GRP race boat survive a week of being pounded by the Atlantic surf and then get forcibly dragged off the beach with no damage whatsoever?

Good outcome: impressive keel structure also to withstand the bashing associated with grounding, then hammered for a week on the shoreline, then yanked around by the tugboat.

Not bad!

 

[bbg]

Good outcome: impressive keel structure also to withstand the bashing associated with grounding, then hammered for a week on the shoreline, then yanked around by the tugboat.

Not bad!

Not bad - and absolutely no structural damage.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Not bad - and absolutely no structural damage.

Obviously fake news. (I anticipate a certain persons reply)

Either that or, “Tell the Sleavins yada yada yada....”

I’ve already told him about a steel boat I’ve sailed across oceans on that’s only a few years old but it’s been scrapped as uneconomical to repair. “Well you must have maintained it wrong is the only answer.”

I wasn’t responsible for it and I didn’t do the maintenance so I can’t comment on something so self evidently true.

 

[NormanS]

Obviously fake news. (I anticipate a certain persons reply)

Either that or, “Tell the Sleavins yada yada yada....”

I’ve already told him about a steel boat I’ve sailed across oceans on that’s only a few years old but it’s been scrapped as uneconomical to repair. “Well you must have maintained it wrong is the only answer.”

I wasn’t responsible for it and I didn’t do the maintenance so I can’t comment on something so self evidently true.

Presumably it's also fake news that the yacht recently sold by Captain Fantastic (see thread on PBO) hit a rock, and sank. You're the one who said that a GRP yacht hitting a rock wouldn't be a problem. Which is the truth?

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Are uncharted rocks especially hard then?

No more so than the average rock but they are persuasive enough to make even the most diehard grp enthusiast contemplate whether steel might have some merit.

This only really applies if one likes to sail in places where uncharted rocks might be encountered. Others can maintain an air of aloof complacency.

 

[rotrax]

Presumably it's also fake news that the yacht recently sold by Captain Fantastic (see thread on PBO) hit a rock, and sank. You're the one who said that a GRP yacht hitting a rock wouldn't be a problem. Which is the truth?

And the Titanic hit some frozen water.........................................

ALL vessels can be pierced if hit in the wrong place by an object when kinetic energy is involved.

The hulls of Kawasaki Jet Ski's are not very ruggedly constructed. Power to weight is very important. The first one in the ROI was purchased as a non-runner from the Kawasaki dealer in Ballymena by the ROI principal of the Kawasaki importers there. He got it going-new CDI unit-and took it to the nearest water, the Grand Canal in Dublin.

It was a section of canal that had been modified so easy access for feeding the ducks was available for local residents, with a dropped and shallow edge. It was very urban and by a traffic light controlled crossroad.

Well, it should have been on youtube, but in 1977, mobile phones as we know them did not exist.

The Jetski was idling, the wet suited owner in the water behind it. As is required to mount, he gassed it. It came away from its almost negative bouyancy state very quickly, as they do, got out of his control, shot up the dropped edge and across the red lights at the crossroads. It traveled 43 paces by itself, due to the hull shape and the low friction of Gelcoat on paving and tarmac. It came to rest half up a granite paved kerbstone.

The Jetski hull was scratched, but otherwise uncompromised. It went on to be a contender in the first Jetski National Championships.

I know the Paddies can tell a good story, but when I heard it from the owners younger brother,I laughed for a week.

 

[Achosenman]

No more so than the average rock but they are persuasive enough to make even the most diehard grp enthusiast contemplate whether steel might have some merit.

This only really applies if one likes to sail in places where uncharted rocks might be encountered. Others can maintain an air of aloof complacency.

No-one here is a die hard GRP enthusiast. We just don't swallow the BS fed to us by die hard steel enthusiasts who try to justify the indentured servitude that characterises owning a steel boat when all they really do is sail to places GRP can handle easily and far better from a maintenance point of view.

When you next sail to the Antarctic or wherever for a cruise, I expect it will be in a steel yacht. Likewise, if I decide go to a cold miserably remote godforsaken place, I expect I would choose something other than GRP. But guess what, I don't plan on any such journey so I don't need the pain that comes with owning a steel boat simply to appease the likes of BS and his acolytes.

 

[GHA]

and his acolytes.

He has any on here?

so I don't need the pain that comes with owning a steel boat

As mentioned on here many times, you should add "that was badly designed and built in the first place" to that

If you're not planning to get among to few adventurous going far and wide polar or tropical then seems little point going well built steel anyway.

 

[rotrax]

He has any on here?



As mentioned on here many times, you should add "that was badly designed and built in the first place" to that

If you're not planning to get among to few adventurous going far and wide polar or tropical then seems little point going well built steel anyway.

Perhaps not to be described as acolytes, but several steel boat owners do support many of his views, which, are bang on.

It is such a shame about the scorn he spouts for others who have a different experience of boating.

It would be a sad world if we all aspired to the same things.