Steelboats

[bbg]

Steel boats are great. Oh no they're not. Oh yes they are. Oh no they're not. Oh yes they are.

That is not an accurate précis. A more accurate précis would be:
Most posters - Steel and GRP both have their positive and negative points
BS - Steel is the only logical choice. Anyone who chooses GRP is a fool
Most people - Steel is fine. But GRP is fine too. Both have their pros and cons.
BS - no, steel has no disadvantages. Anyone who chooses to cruise in GRP is grossly negligent.

 

[GHA]

Actually, another interesting test would be to put a few inches of seawater in the bilge of a steel and a GRP boat. Then drop a few items of dissimilar metals in the bilge. Maybe some copper, some steel, some stainless, some aluminium bits. Maybe even run a bit of current through the seawater. See which hull fares better.

Any looked after steel boat would have dusty bilges where water never visits.

 

[bbg]

Any looked after steel boat would have dusty bilges where water never visits.

Neither steel nor GRP boats typically have a pick axe swung at them, but BS thinks that is a valid test.

Any looked after boat would have dusty bilges where water never visits - but not all boats are looked after, so it is perfectly legitimate to suggest a real-life test. One that is more realistic than BS's test.

 

[john_morris_uk]

A good comparison of the relative strengths of thew two materials.If as is often suggested GRP is as tough as steel the plastic pick axe would fare well. This points out exactly how ludicrous that argument is.

So the fact that I can sharpen a steel blade with a soft stone means that the stone is tougher than the steel?

A rope will cut through steel given time and a lot of effort and a lot of rope. Does that make rope tougher than steel?

I can engrave a steel sheet with a diamond, but if I hit the diamond with a hammer it might shatter. Which is the toughest?

Can you see how ludicrous your argument is?

Steel pickaxe against GRP sheet isn't a comparable test with GRP pickaxe against steel sheet. No one in their right mind would suggest otherwise.

Can you show me ANYWHERE in this thread (or any other thread on YBW) where anyone suggests GRP is as tough as steel. Yet you say, "as is often suggested..." Show me one example out of your 'often'.

Plenty of people have poured scorn on your tails of how vulnerable GRP boats are. Several people have pointed out how tough GRP boats are. But that's inconvenient in your frame of reference and is therefore ignored.

 

[GHA]

One that is more realistic than BS's test.

Think Mr Realistic may have left the building quite some time ago

 

[rotrax]

That is not an accurate précis. A more accurate précis would be:
Most posters - Steel and GRP both have their positive and negative points
BS - Steel is the only logical choice. Anyone who chooses GRP is a fool
Most people - Steel is fine. But GRP is fine too. Both have their pros and cons.
BS - no, steel has no disadvantages. Anyone who chooses to cruise in GRP is grossly negligent.

Yup-pretty much it...............................

 

[rotrax]

On a lighter note our steel Hartley 32-its called a 30 by the designers, Hartley and Brookes, but measures 32 feet-has been performing very well over the last few days. We have been out in her tweaking the rig, adjusting the Gear/Throttle cables, playing with the roller boom reefing and altering sheet angles and runs.

Catching fish too. Yesterday our guests aboard included a ten year old who got a couple of big Kahawai and had another-a much bigger one-throw the hooks.

The boat is going really well after our tweaking sessions. I must admit to being surprised at the speeds achieved-right up to hull speed-with 15KTS on the beam. She is quite stiff and is the first yacht I have owned that balances so the helm can be left to its own devices and still maintain the course.

It has a bulb on the keel, filled with steel punchings locked in place with what I assume to be bitumen. In typical Kiwi No. eight wire tradition, the bulb is made from gas cylinders welded together.

Only problem that I would like to fix is to raise the exhaust outlet. The exhaust exits through the bottom of the transom, 3 inches above the waterline. When motoring it becomes partially submerged and splashes seawater all over the transom and rear deck. I will think about this until we return next November and deal with it then.

The designers have stated that well over 100,000 Hartley boats have been built since 1938 when they started selling plans.

Not bad, eh Brent..........................

 

[lpdsn]

That is not an accurate précis. A more accurate précis would be:
Most posters - Steel and GRP both have their positive and negative points
BS - Steel is the only logical choice. Anyone who chooses GRP is a fool
Most people - Steel is fine. But GRP is fine too. Both have their pros and cons.
BS - no, steel has no disadvantages. Anyone who chooses to cruise in GRP is grossly negligent.

Ah! You're still taking the thread seriously...

 

[Brent Swain]

On a lighter note our steel Hartley 32-its called a 30 by the designers, Hartley and Brookes, but measures 32 feet-has been performing very well over the last few days. We have been out in her tweaking the rig, adjusting the Gear/Throttle cables, playing with the roller boom reefing and altering sheet angles and runs.

Catching fish too. Yesterday our guests aboard included a ten year old who got a couple of big Kahawai and had another-a much bigger one-throw the hooks.

The boat is going really well after our tweaking sessions. I must admit to being surprised at the speeds achieved-right up to hull speed-with 15KTS on the beam. She is quite stiff and is the first yacht I have owned that balances so the helm can be left to its own devices and still maintain the course.

It has a bulb on the keel, filled with steel punchings locked in place with what I assume to be bitumen. In typical Kiwi No. eight wire tradition, the bulb is made from gas cylinders welded together.

Only problem that I would like to fix is to raise the exhaust outlet. The exhaust exits through the bottom of the transom, 3 inches above the waterline. When motoring it becomes partially submerged and splashes seawater all over the transom and rear deck. I will think about this until we return next November and deal with it then.

The designers have stated that well over 100,000 Hartley boats have been built since 1938 when they started selling plans.

Not bad, eh Brent..........................

I like to make the 2 or 3 inches surrounding the exhaust pipe stainless sheet , set in flush. Even with a wet exhaust, the extra heat causes corrosion there. Also, it is a good idea for stove pipes thru the cabin top or deck. I put my dry exhaust about 8 inches above the waterline, then run an elbow on the end to take it under water, for super silencing, and a 1/4 inch anti siphon hole on top. From below the water, I put another 90 degree elbow to point it aft, and a rubber flap made from the side wall of a tire, to stop any surge from forcing it's way up the pipe. Underwater silences the exhaust drastically .Power boats use the principle all the time. Has worked well for me for the last 40 years .
Friends solved the black smoke on the transom, by simply painting the transom black.

I was thinking of bulb keels, when I saw the piles of abandoned oxygen tanks on Fanning Island, but it's a long way to pack them.
With so many extremely asymetrical waterlines, few have experienced a boat with good hull balance , believing that unbalance and lack of directional stability is inevitable, and unavoidable. After experiencing abysmal lack of directional stability in my first boat, I have made it a priority.
Its as simple as calculating the LCB of the boat upright, then calculating it heeled, at an angle of 25 degrees .If the LCB heeled stays the same, or move slightly forward, you have a well balanced hull. If heeling the hull moves the LCB aft ,you have a poorly balanced hull, which will lack directional stability. Then, fill out the bow waterlines a bit , and fine down the aft ones a bit.
My boats have steered themselves on a broad reach, with no one on the helm, and wind vane not engaged, for miles, and hours .

 

[Brent Swain]

You are wrong. You have misled yourself to believe that everyone should have the same values and priorities as you. Most people want more out of life than you.

As do you ,and many of my critics here, and elsewhere.
Did you hear the one about the steel manufacturing worker, who complained that my advocating steel hulls over plastic was costing him work ,and job security?
LOL!

 

[Brent Swain]

That is not an accurate précis. A more accurate précis would be:
Most posters - Steel and GRP both have their positive and negative points
BS - Steel is the only logical choice. Anyone who chooses GRP is a fool
Most people - Steel is fine. But GRP is fine too. Both have their pros and cons.
BS - no, steel has no disadvantages. Anyone who chooses to cruise in GRP is grossly negligent.

Another "straw man "argument .Make up stupid claims which no one has been making, and falsely attribute them to me, so you will have an easy argument to make!
LOL!
It's wearing kinda thin tho!

 

[rotrax]

I put my dry exhaust about 8 inches above the waterline, then run an elbow on the end to take it under water, for super silencing, and a 1/4 inch anti siphon hole on top. From below the water, I put another 90 degree elbow to point it aft, and a rubber flap made from the side wall of a tire, to stop any surge from forcing it's way up the pipe. Underwater silences the exhaust drastically .Power boats use the principle all the time. Has worked well for me for the last 40 years .
Friends solved the black smoke on the transom, by simply painting the transom black.

I was thinking of bulb keels, when I saw the piles of abandoned oxygen tanks on Fanning Island, but it's a long way to pack them.

Your first point re the exhaust is what I have been thinking, great minds and all that.

The keel bulb on Ella is made from 9 kilo propane tanks, so easy to find and transport. About 7 of them, with a pointed front for streamlining.

Although. after seeing and reading about the big stuff with bulb bows, I suspect the point is not neccessary.

 

[Brent Swain]

The nice thing about oxygen tanks is they are much thicker.
A diesel mechanic on metalboatsociety.org was quoted as saying"If everyone went for dry exhaust and keel cooling, us mechanics would all be out of work."

 

[bbg]

Another "straw man "argument .Make up stupid claims which no one has been making, and falsely attribute them to me, so you will have an easy argument to make!
LOL!
It's wearing kinda thin tho!

You're the one making stupid claims. My précis is a pretty accurate summary of your position. Not word-for-word, but that it the point of a summary. It catches the essence.

Most people on here acknowledge the advantages of steel. But they also recognise the disadvantages. And they recognise the advantages of GRP over steel for long term, long distance cruising.

You are incapable of recognising any advantages of GRP. The advantages should be obvious based on the number of people who are actually living a long-term cruising life in GRP boats.

 

[rogerthebodger]

The lowest point in my bilge is over my keel fuel tank and the tank covers are 316 stainless with a sump build in where the bilge pump sits if ever and water gets in,

 

[dom]

The lowest point in my bilge is over my keel fuel tank and the tank covers are 316 stainless with a sump build in where the bilge pump sits if ever and water gets in,

...the kind of smart, simple to install, hard to retrofit idea, which makes these forums useful :encouragement:

 

[rogerthebodger]

...the kind of smart, simple to install, hard to retrofit idea, which makes these forums useful :encouragement:

I did retrofit as the first lid was galvanised steel bolted from the top. The retrofit are fitted such that I maneuvered through the tank access hole and bolted from the underside of the tank flange.

 

[Brent Swain]

You're the one making stupid claims. My précis is a pretty accurate summary of your position. Not word-for-word, but that it the point of a summary. It catches the essence.

Most people on here acknowledge the advantages of steel. But they also recognise the disadvantages. And they recognise the advantages of GRP over steel for long term, long distance cruising.

You are incapable of recognising any advantages of GRP. The advantages should be obvious based on the number of people who are actually living a long-term cruising life in GRP boats.

What I say and what you see are two completely different things, sometimes opposites. Its kinda like in a marriage!
The number of people who believed the world is flat and the universe revolves around it, was huge ,almost all of them.Surely they couldn't have all been wrong ,you say?

 

[Brent Swain]

The lowest point in my bilge is over my keel fuel tank and the tank covers are 316 stainless with a sump build in where the bilge pump sits if ever and water gets in,

I like to weld a zinc in, at the low point, which will protect things, any time there is any water in the bilge.
Its so easy and inexpensive to do critical areas in stainless, its surprising it is not done more often.

 

[Brent Swain]

I did retrofit as the first lid was galvanised steel bolted from the top. The retrofit are fitted such that I maneuvered through the tank access hole and bolted from the underside of the tank flange.

I use those round, 1 1/2 inch by 1/8th inch angle SS flanges one finds in scrapyards around here, from the pulp mills.Lets you hold both the bolt and the nut, and bolt the lid on top. Keeps any bilge water from sitting against any leaks.