Steelboats

[rotrax]

Would have had a huge hole, had she been plastic. Critics here would say steel attracted the collision, and it was all your fault!

It is quite clear Brent, that you are losing the plot here. You see critics where others see a discussion.

The poster you replied to started this thread about his steel yacht he had built. See post #1. He has AFAIK, truthfully passed on the result of an incident and you are challenging him.

1. Do you think he was lying when he stated a 24 footer made a dent and a small hole in his steel boat?

2. If you believe he was truthful, why the antagonistic attack?

You have watched the video of the GRP boat crashing into the stone breakwater-why would a 24 footer make a huge hole in a GRP boat?

Please answer Brent; I and I have no doubt others following this can't follow your logic.

 

[Brent Swain]

Back to boats . I find it amazing how many designers and most local builders use 1/8th inch plater for keels. Lead is almost always far more expensive than steel ,and using heavier plate, and less ballast for keels, is far easier to use and keep fair, as well as offering a much wider margin, should corrosion problems appear.
Perhaps designers like the numbers, in terms of ballast ratio, for advertising, despite the difference between thin steel and thicker steel instead of more lead , has almost zero effect on performance .
I use 1/4 inch plate on keels, half inch on the bottom and leading edges .
Most comercially built sailboats around here use only 1/8th inch plate for keels, some even for keel bottoms. How "Professional""öf them! Where's the logic?

With some having problems with corrosion in the bilge ,it does no harm to go for much thicker plate there as well. A big Part of the problem is lack of easy access. I elimineated the small lift panels for a one piece lift out floor, leaving the entire bilge open. I did the same with bunk tops making them a one piece lid ,hinged along the out side, with tie downs on the inside .Far less work to build, or replace.

 

[Brent Swain]

¿Is someone here suggesting am laying on these Mexican beaches, wishing I was in a traffic lineup, going to work, or that I am wishing I had spent my life working, insytead of playing full time?

 

[Brent Swain]

Brent, this thread might have been about SteelBoats, but you have (as usual) turned it into about you and your rants about steel verses GRP. Nobody really cares about your constant repetition of the stories about the very few cases that you keep quoting as proof of your ideas, not to mention your frequent attacks on anybody who might just point out you are mistaken, or just plain wrong. It is getting very tedious reading about your 'crusade' to save people from risks that are very low in the real world.
Get a grip on life, though it might be a bit late. Also, try and stay away from the wilder accusations that people who disagree with you might be holocaust deniers or don't believe in the moon landings.

Also, learn to use the quote bits, you have quoted yourself, but not. Bit confusing to readers. Though there can't be many left now.

By the way, some time back, you posted about a stability curve for your boat at 183°. Then you said it was a typo. So, it is OK for you to make them , when they sound unlikely....

People who deny the obvoius need to be challenged
183 degrees is 177 degrees measured from the other side. Your bringing that up, proves you are just one of the gang of trolls who have been constanly , anonymously hiding behind aliases, following me all across the internet, for years ,for lack of anything better to do.
No , I made no claim that they are holcast deniers etc, another straw man arguement ( it was a question and comparison , did you not see the question marks) I just pointed out just how ridiculous, and similar their denial of reality is .
Yes, people who deny reality ,because it contradicts their fantasy based theories, are wrong, period.

 

[rotrax]

Yes, people who deny reality ,because it contradicts their fantasy based theories, are wrong, period.[/QUOTE



And, Brent, if the cap fits, bloody well wear it!

You have summed yourself up in that one line. Talk about an own goal..........................................

 

[PeteCooper]

Somewhere there is a village missing an idiot.

 

[myquest]

¿Is someone here suggesting am laying on these Mexican beaches, wishing I was in a traffic lineup, going to work, or that I am wishing I had spent my life working, insytead of playing full time?

I can't think that anybody here gives a toss how you pass your time. It's what you say that grates!

I do find a certain irony in your choice of material to built boats. If I had spent my working life in any part of the iron/steel production industry in order to support my family and supply you with the material for your boats only for you to denigrate my life choice, I would be quite justified in thinking of you as a selfish prat. To take that further most of the things that you use on your boat will have required working people and infrastucture to furnish you with even the most basic of needs. Yet you slate those very souls as "Going to a job they hate, to make money they dont need, to buy stuff they dont need, to impress people they don't like!" just to provide you with what you can't do without.
I have no interest in your crusade regarding your choice of boat building material but on behalf of the greedy nit wits, as you would have it, that provide you with it, maybe you should do a bit of soul searching. Your chosen way of life is completely unsustainable without them.

With regard to this threads intent, I suspect it was a fishing trip in which you obediantly took the bait and opened with "Yes plastic boats are far better , for leaving on a mooring." I for one have enjoyed your mostly dim witted responses immensely, not for anything informative in a maritime sense, but in the same way that I view the Flat Earthers who childishly claim to be all over the globe!

The thread did prompt me to take a trip with Silas Crosby up the Slough (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-FcQMoOgGI) so has given me a glimpse of a tiny bit of Canada. I was suprised to see that your normal anchorage looks to be a mudflat at low tide. As a liveaboard that must be a bit incovenient when the tide is out.
I also took up robertj's suggestion to take a look at Emerald Steel's offering on Youtube and found that very informative. What a fantastic couple extoleing the true value of a cruising life. Now there's a lady who can weld! Take a look. No unskilled birdshit welding there!
You do appear to have some good ideas and seem quite inventive but your alienation skills are off the scale. We Brits are obviously quite a tolerant lot as you haven't been banned from this forum.....................................................................................................yet!

As a post scipt, I note that a lot of responders present you with calculations based on your claims. I'm going to take it that your book allowed you to retire in your 20s. I did try to find a copy only to find that it is on Amazon Best Sellers list ranked at No. 7,237,107 and unavailable. Enjoy your retirement!

 

[Brent Swain]

I can't think that anybody here gives a toss how you pass your time.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

What I am giving is what one can accomplish, in terms of early rertirement, by resourcefullness and practicality ,my life style being the result, an example,of what can be accomplished . No, you dont have to work 40 hours a week, until you are 65.That is an employers myth. Nice to se youth, working enough for a bit of money, then playing until it runs out. Much better values.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I do find a certain irony in your choice of material to built boats. If I had spent my working life in any part of the iron/steel production industry in order to support my family and supply you with the material for your boats only for you to denigrate my life choice, I would be quite justified in thinking of you as a selfish prat. To take that further most of the things that you use on your boat will have required working people and infrastucture to furnish you with even the most basic of needs. Yet you slate those very souls as "Going to a job they hate, to make money they dont need, to buy stuff they dont need, to impress people they don't like!" just to provide you with what you can't do without.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I am making the most of what you produce, to drastically reduce my environmetal foot print, that being in direct porportion to how much money you go thru. Making the liveaboard lifestyle economically avaialble to my clients also drasticaly reduces their environmetal foot print, sometimes for life.
This planet is finite.
No, I dont feel guilty for not making more people , nor spending more, nor demanding more than I need.
No, you dont have the right to tell us we should all make your choices, and let you tell us how to live our lives.
Environmentaly, yours is completely unsustainable , and would take several more planets to sustain.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have no interest in your crusade regarding your choice of boat building material but on behalf of the greedy nit wits, as you would have it, that provide you with it, maybe you should do a bit of soul searching. Your chosen way of life is completely unsustainable without them.

With regard to this threads intent, I suspect it was a fishing trip in which you obediantly took the bait and opened with "Yes plastic boats are far better , for leaving on a mooring." I for one have enjoyed your mostly dim witted responses immensely, not for anything informative in a maritime sense, but in the same way that I view the Flat Earthers who childishly claim to be all over the globe!

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pretty ""dim witted"" to spend ones whole life working, destroying the planet we live on, like sitting on a branch while sawimg it off on the tree side, with little time for play.
_______________________________________________________________________

The thread did prompt me to take a trip with Silas Crosby up the Slough (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-FcQMoOgGI) so has given me a glimpse of a tiny bit of Canada. I was suprised to see that your normal anchorage looks to be a mudflat at low tide. As a liveaboard that must be a bit incovenient when the tide is out.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
When the storm blows,it's sure nice to have had the opportunity to have walked around your boat at low tide and set your anchors real well, buried them. When keels bottom out ,no worries about dragging, advantages Steve enjoyed thoroughly in the Straits of Magellan, in storms .Ask him if he would have rather been in a single keeler there. Also. nice to walk ashore at low tide. Yes, some slight disadvantages ,but one client there, said he has watched boats in the marina change hands six times without leaving the marina, missing the point of owning a cruising boat. Such expensive habits destroy cruising time.
I prefer the advantage of cruising, free time, over marina snobbery.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

You do appear to have some good ideas and seem quite inventive but your alienation skills are off the scale. We Brits are obviously quite a tolerant lot as you haven't been banned from this forum.....................................................................................................yet!

As a post scipt, I note that a lot of responders present you with calculations based on your claims. I'm going to take it that your book allowed you to retire in your 20s. I did try to find a copy only to find that it is on Amazon Best Sellers list ranked at No. 7,237,107 and unavailable. Enjoy your retirement!

Not on Amazon .I sell it by mail order

 

[Brent Swain]

Yes, people who deny reality ,because it contradicts their fantasy based theories, are wrong, period.[/QUOTE



And, Brent, if the cap fits, bloody well wear it!

You have summed yourself up in that one line. Talk about an own goal..........................................

Reality Is a hull and deck for $17 K, instead of the $250K my clients have been quoted from fabricating shops.
Reality is over 40 years of trouble free ocean cruising in my designs, by people who couldnt afford such a custom built, new steel boat any other way .Reality is the excellent passage times Steve posted on Silas Crosby.The list goes on.

 

[Brent Swain]

By the way, some time back, you posted about a stability curve for your boat at 183°. Then you said it was a typo. So, it is OK for you to make them , when they sound unlikely....

The trolls are obviously getting desperate, when they have to dig up a typo from so many years ago, to find something to attack me with.

 

[rotrax]

Reality Is a hull and deck for $17 K, instead of the $250K my clients have been quoted from fabricating shops.
Reality is over 40 years of trouble free ocean cruising in my designs, by people who couldnt afford such a custom built, new steel boat any other way .Reality is the excellent passage times Steve posted on Silas Crosby.The list goes on.

But, Brent, the reality is that very few build or want to build your boats, or boats like them.

In comparison to the hundreds of thousands who choose to buy a new or pre owned GRP or boat made of another material.

You cater for the bottom end of a huge market. Some of the video's you and others have linked to are not very flattering to the boats or the builders, however successfully they perform long term.

All credit for achieving what you wished to achieve with your life, but why regale us on this forum with many unsubstantiated facts? Why be so dismissive of boats made from other materials, boat sales people and boat parts suppliers?

IMHO, you have a personality defect or an unrealistic and imagined sense of where you and your boats lie in the grand order of all things marine.

There is a post on this forum suggesting sailing accessory manufacturers are making poor products-something you have maintained several times. Apart from the Raymarine tiller pilots, most people are happy-and their kit is pretty trouble free.
Have you nothing to input into that thread-after all, you make your own stuff because what you can buy is crap/too expensive/not strong enough.

But few posters find the same as you, and are satisfied with OE equipment or aftermarket purchases.

A bit like this thread really-most are happy with GRP, except you................................

 

[Brent Swain]

There is a great article in the March 2019 issue of Sail magazine, by a guy who followed the advice given here, and bought an older, stock plastic boat to refurbish.
Took him 14 years . Mine took 30 days to hit the water ,another ten to detail, and another ten to paint and foam. Three more to rough the interior in and another week to rig.
A new custom built boat,of new materials.
Sure beats 14 years!
Another interesting article there is the guy who had a horrendously complex water system, which nearly sunk his boat, which he replaced with another horrendously complex one, at great expense.
No, making a boat more complex doesn't constitute making it a better cruising boat!
"Simplicity is the true genius !"
Albert Einstein.

 

[Brent Swain]

But, Brent, the reality is that very few build or want to build your boats, or boats like them.

In comparison to the hundreds of thousands who choose to buy a new or pre owned GRP or boat made of another material.

You cater for the bottom end of a huge market. Some of the video's you and others have linked to are not very flattering to the boats or the builders, however successfully they perform long term.

All credit for achieving what you wished to achieve with your life, but why regale us on this forum with many unsubstantiated facts? Why be so dismissive of boats made from other materials, boat sales people and boat parts suppliers?

IMHO, you have a personality defect or an unrealistic and imagined sense of where you and your boats lie in the grand order of all things marine.

There is a post on this forum suggesting sailing accessory manufacturers are making poor products-something you have maintained several times. Apart from the Raymarine tiller pilots, most people are happy-and their kit is pretty trouble free.
Have you nothing to input into that thread-after all, you make your own stuff because what you can buy is crap/too expensive/not strong enough.

But few posters find the same as you, and are satisfied with OE equipment or aftermarket purchases.

A bit like this thread really-most are happy with GRP, except you................................

No mine are at the tiny top end of the cruising boat market.
Yes ,boats which rarely leave the marina keep their owners happy with the gear on them. On these sites , I hear of problems with furlers, windvanes anchor winches, thru hulls, etc , etc, which my gear has no problem with, in decades of full time cruising, at a fraction the cost.
Seems they regard the breakdowns and problems inevitable, and unavoidable, which I never have. Yank Designer Bob Perry said "If it doesn't break it is over built!" Not surprising , coming from someone who ridicules strength and toughness. Not someone a cruisers should pay $175 an hour to, for advice.
Few cruisers in stock plastic boats are remotely aware of the amount of abuse a steel boat can survive, and the toughness of steel boats, nor the peace of mind cruising in one brings. Few have experienced that.
Anyone questioning mass group think will be considered to have a "personality defect" by the sheeple. All new innovations and ideas have faced the same syndrome, which would have kept us in the stone age, had they been followed .

you make your own stuff because what you can buy is crap/too expensive/not strong enough.

Right on! You got it!

Some of the video's you and others have linked to are not very flattering to the boats or the builders, however successfully they perform long term.

"Fools and children should never be allowed to see a work of art incomplete."
Picasso.
Yes, they make a big deal out of optical illusions, like the picture of the bow plates at the stem appearing to not line up. Worried me, until I checked the measurements to the marks where I joined the two halves .Identical measurements down both sides. I pulled the two sides together, from the bottom up, and when I got the top, they matched perfectly ( which picture critics did not show). Then they accused me of making the edge of one plate shorter, by forcing it to be shorter with a pipe clamp! Such is the incredible ignorance of some of my critics, and some who believe them.

Nice to be home from Mexico. Reminds me how great, and how much simpler life is here.

 

[DownWest]

I seemed to have missed 'the advice given here' to spend 14 years refurbish an old boat. Would you like to point me to it?
You keep quoting vague stories to justify your ideas. Yes, you can pull together a hull in a fairly short time and have good ideas to avoid corrosion.
But, when you compare your old 17k against a professional yard at 250k you are loosing the plot. I quite simply don't believe you. (and not just based on that bit)
Then you quote people who might have odd ideas about water systems ?? Give me an idea (Please! ) about what that has to do about this discussion? Lots of people make bad decisons about boat kit. Nothing to do about steel boats.

 

[DownWest]

No mine are at the tiny top end of the cruising boat market.
/QUOTE]
You really think that? Explains a few of your wilder posts.

 

[rotrax]

Why dont we see these problems in the magnitude you encounter on this side of the pond Brent? Surprising when we have many, many more boats in use than BC.

I am not suggesting for a moment they cant and dont happen, but you know loads of friends suffering these problems, every bay in BC is littered with holed GRP boats, all GRP boats in BC are only fit for " Marina Queens "

Its different in the UK and Europe. The ones in trouble are made from a dense, heavy metal which is severely prone to corrosion near seawater.

Most of the boats suffering expensive or terminal problems are not made of wood, aluminium or GRP over here.

I am an active member of 2 yacht/boat clubs, one in the UK, one in NZ. Total membership of boat owners around 300. IIRC-in the last two years, apart from improvements and routine maintenance:-

One GibSea had a loose P bracket, one knocked a bit off his rudder sailing a 6 foot draught boat in 4 feet of water in Wellington Harbour trying an expensive short cut during an evening race, one had a shroud fail-it was 30 years old, so he changed the lot-one had a serious water leak from a hatch, again a 40 year old Houdini which required re-glazing by a specialist. Another GRP owner had a water leak from the toerail. Lifting and re-bedding the through deck stantion bases soon sorted that.

No one currently has serious osmosis, but some have had treatment in the past, no one has a rotted core, or a problem with through hulls or mast supports.

So, that is my experience through knowing the gossip around 300 ish mostly GRP vessels in two clubs. Lets double the number of serious faults, as I might not be aware of some, and we get ten.

Just with your friends you list eight.

I honestly think you are bullshitting........................................

I note you have made no reply to the above, Brent, but as usual have waffled, evaded and made nebulous answers to other perhaps less direct questions.

As I said, I honestly think you are BS ing.

 

[Skylark]

There is a great article in the March 2019 issue of Sail magazine, by a guy who followed the advice given here, and bought an older, stock plastic boat to refurbish. Took him 14 years............

Reminds me of a steel boat hulk left abandoned in north Wales. The original owner progressed as far as bare hull and gave up as he discovered that it simply wasn’t worth the effort to complete. He tried to sell it at ever reducing price, but no takers. He then tried to give it away, no takers. After many years he called in the cavalry to cut it up for scrap.

By BS logic, this proves conclusively that steel boats are a burden too far. The original owner in this true story bought a plastic boat and sailed happily into the sunset

 

[PeteCooper]

Reminds me of a steel boat hulk left abandoned in north Wales. The original owner progressed as far as bare hull and gave up as he discovered that it simply wasn’t worth the effort to complete. He tried to sell it at ever reducing price, but no takers. He then tried to give it away, no takers. After many years he called in the cavalry to cut it up for scrap.

By BS logic, this proves conclusively that steel boats are a burden too far. The original owner in this true story bought a plastic boat and sailed happily into the sunset

BS isn't interested in the truth. I gave an example of when my grp boat trashed a steel pushpit and he called me a liar.

 

[Brent Swain]

I seemed to have missed 'the advice given here' to spend 14 years refurbish an old boat. Would you like to point me to it?
You keep quoting vague stories to justify your ideas. Yes, you can pull together a hull in a fairly short time and have good ideas to avoid corrosion.
But, when you compare your old 17k against a professional yard at 250k you are loosing the plot. I quite simply don't believe you. (and not just based on that bit)
Then you quote people who might have odd ideas about water systems ?? Give me an idea (Please! ) about what that has to do about this discussion? Lots of people make bad decisons about boat kit. Nothing to do about steel boats.

Read the March issue of Sail Magazine. It is clearly there. Nothing "vague" about it.
Read the materials list on the origamiboats site, and cal a steeL supplier for a quote. Then compare that top a quote for enough fibreglassing materials for a 36 ft plastic boat , then read Bob Perrys quote of $300K US for a mold . Just saw an add for a roller furler in Sail Magazine for $8K US . Mine cost me $80. If i won millions in the lottery, I would have no reason to change it

 

[rotrax]

Are you a politician Brent?

You are very good at not answering the question.

Nobody is suggesting that the owner did not spend 14 years doing the boat. The question was:- Please show me the "advice given here" which caused him to spend all this time.

"Here", as we all understand, being this thread, on this forum. THAT is what you suggested was the cause of the timescale.

And reply to post #795 Brent.

Otherwise the abreviation for Bullshit-which as you know is BS may change to:- " No way! You are Brent Swaining me! "