Steelboats

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rotrax said:
Well, that just shows how much you know about how others go about their lives Brent. Probably because normal life is of little interest to you.

My wife became a good motorbike racer in her own right-even after the children came along she re-started her career. She is keener than I to get out on either of our boats, where she is I/C steering for berthing and mooring/anchoring.

Your views on the worlds overpopulation have no place here, even though I agree with you. Unfortunately, unilateral action like yours is meaningless in the world we live in.

I have the right sort of wife. Not all men are so fortunate. She is a petrol head, loves sailing and travel.

After 51 years, I recon she is a keeper!
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So do tell us about all your steel boat building, designing , living aboard,maintaining , and ocean cruisng which makes you more qualified on this subject than someone who has been building ,designing, living aboard ,maintaining and cruising in steel boats for over 40 years, with so many of his designs out cruising.

That is what this thread is about.
By your posts, I suggest you search for "Better homes and gardens"for something more in your field of interest , of more interest to you.

Seems you are only here to harass, jeer at, troll attack and join a pile on, for the joy of trolling, and joining a pile on.
 
dom said:
Well, well, well:

Shocking, almost unwatchable, then ..................;) :encouragement:
https://youtu.be/euARI7PkOiA
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Amazing! Mine have pounded like that for weeks, and one for 4 months ,without serious damage.
Met some amputees in the Cook islands who got between a boat and a reef.
Very dangerous to get in the water like that.
I have seen some survive, and others break up quickly in those conditions. Many around Comox have sunk quickly that way.
 
Your views on the worlds overpopulation have no place here, even though I agree with you. Unfortunately, unilateral action like yours is meaningless in the world we live in.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?498670-Steelboats/page8#C68RrpFFqTymTjUC.99'[Quote ]
It takes a lot of people taking unilateral action to make a difference . Questioning those who dont is a part of it. al we can do is our own part, and encouragement for others to consider it.I have done mine. Have you?
 
Brent Swain said:
Probably because normal life is of little interest to you.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?498670-Steelboats/page8#ybeLoWRRMX7XU8xk.99
Nomal.
Going to a job you hate, to make money you dont need, to buy stuff you dont need, to impress people you don't like!
Yes, that is of little interest to me.
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You see Brent, that is your problem. You consider others who dont opt out of society in the way you chose to be inferior.

I liked my work, certainly did not hate it.

I needed money to provide a home for my family, but mostly to indulge my passion for motorbike racing.

I bought little I did not need, and any impressing I did was on the track. Never met most of those I was trying to impress-I was on the bike, they were in the crowd.

Again, you judge others by your own limited experience of life.

On your following post, as I said I am in agreement, but your premise is not practical by any measure.

I have two sons, the elder has a son and a daughter.

Like you, I have spent my life doing exactly what I wanted to do with it. And I still am!

Unlike you however, I dont imply censure on those who have chosen a different path.
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I must be within Brent’s cross-hairs as I retired early and fully meet his definition of being a marina queen.

I thoroughly enjoyed my working career as it gave me so many wonderful experiences. However, the best part of life for me is time spent with friends and family.

For most of us, work is an important part of life as it facilitates the transition from a boy to a man and with it our ability to socialise. As we mature, life experiences tend to knock off our edges and make us more rounded as we learn, we understand, we tolerate and we respect others.

With his life-long minimalist, vagabond sea-nomad lifestyle Brent seems to have missed this important part of evolution. Quite sad really, it’s evident that he offers freely some good advice regarding steel boat maintenance but his trolling and unwavering views of plastic boats, yacht designers, chandlers and other people that don’t share is jaundiced views, do him a disservice.
 
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Brent Swain said:
Amazing! Mine have pounded like that for weeks, and one for 4 months ,without serious damage.
Met some amputees in the Cook islands who got between a boat and a reef.
Very dangerous to get in the water like that.
I have seen some survive, and others break up quickly in those conditions. Many around Comox have sunk quickly that way.
Click to expand...

Hammered like that for 4 months! Wow, lots of people must have taken vids and the local yachting press must have penned stories of wonderment!

The trouble is, wonderment inevitably gives way to skepticism when grand claims are backed with little, or no data. To which end, my increasing sense is that your boats may be dangerous from a stability point of view. The GZ curve you posted - wherever it came from - was simply not credible, the ballast calcs are way off and there seems little intuitive recognition of safe loading.

No detailed plans have been posted and as far as I know your vessels have received no official certifications. Then there is the unlikely claim that a lawyer professionally advised that there was no need for liability insurance having been told a few reef yarns. Not to mention an attitude towards fire prevention, liferafts, etc., which ignores the lessons of history and good practice.

More recently, questions of steel maintenance are being lost in a haze of anti-capitalist, anarchistic rambles; ironically in this case, clearly made from shore side, not the clear blue sea. Such discussions should really be confined to the Lounge.

Genuinely wishing you all the best for wherever 2019 takes you.
 
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If you find a job you would do for the love of it ,you will never work a day in your life.
If that is what you want ,go for it. My posts are for those who dont want such a cookie cutter, idenitical life style ,constantly being told when to get up and what to do, day after day . They have a right to know of the alternatives ,and how to achieve them. Most of all, they have the right to know the alternatives ,regardless of you who seek to mislead them, into believing that the cookie cutter lifestyle is their only option
 
Achosenman said:
I don't want, need nor like steel boats for my sailing. If I intended to venture way down south or way up north I'd probably look at Ovni. I've been told steel is too much hassle from people I respect and who's judgement I trust. From your offerings, they can be pig ugly to boot.

How many millions did you have in your account when you retired? Don't worry you needn't answer, you had diddly squat. What you call retirement we call being "on the dole"
Your inability to find gainful employment is a similar situation many feckless dreamers have found themselves in. I will admit, not many wear it as a badge of honour, so kudos.

You may know a bit about steel boats, (even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut) but you demonstrate zero knowledge about modern GRP materials, strengths, weaknesses and uses. The old inch thick polyester resin with simple glass fibre matting is nothing like the choices available and in use by designers today. But that doesn't stop you pontificating ad nauseam about a subject you have repeatedly demonstrated your ignorance in, apart from the fact that it outsells your creations by a factor of many thousands to one.

I have a test for you. Instead of a demolition derby, how about we get a tank constructed of GRP to boat building standards. (Modern) We then fill it with water, you jump in and hold your breath. We screw the lid down and you break out of the fragile plastic by shattering it from inside in-time to prevent yourself from drowning...I'd pay to see that. ;)
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So what are you doing trolling a steel boat discussion? Obviously trying to kill exchange of info on steel boats, A freind with years of Southern ocean experince had an Ovni. Now she has a steel boat, with no intention of going back to aluminium, or any other material
 
dom said:
Hammered like that for 4 months! Wow, lots of people must have taken vids and the local yachting press must have penned stories of wonderment!

The trouble is, wonderment inevitably gives way to skepticism when grand claims are backed with little, or no data. To which end, my increasing sense is that your boats may be dangerous from a stability point of view. The GZ curve you posted - wherever it came from - was simply not credible, the ballast calcs are way off and there seems little intuitive recognition of safe loading.

No detailed plans have been posted and as far as I know your vessels have received no official certifications. Then there is the unlikely claim that a lawyer professionally advised that there was no need for liability insurance having been told a few reef yarns. Not to mention an attitude towards fire prevention, liferafts, etc., which ignores the lessons of history and good practice.

More recently, questions of steel maintenance are being lost in a haze of anti-capitalist, anarchistic rambles; ironically in this case, clearly made from shore side, not the clear blue sea. Such discussions should really be confined to the Lounge.

Genuinely wishing you all the best for wherever 2019 takes you.
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Ask the folks at Boca de Toro Panama, or the shipayard in Suva. Some also deny the holocast, with the same arguements. Did they fake the moon landing? Your kind of people!
If every such incident was widely reported in the media papers and magazines would be as thick as a New York phone book, and they would quickly go bankrupt. Many stories and videos we see her are nowhere to be seen in the regular media and hard to find here.
Stability curves were done by former critics. None has ever capsized. in over 350,000 miles of ocean cruising.
You suggest every grounding results in major world wide media coverage?
Would a doctor, having sailed from BC to New Zealand and back, take a boat he has sailed from BC to Mexico and Hawaii and back , around Cape Horn , and to the Aleutians , had she had stability problems? Then recommend another 36, Tagish, for a friends circumnavigation, after all that experiennce with the design. Search Tagish.
Search Silas Crosby
There goes your credibility!
You want detailed plans ? Pay for them!

95% of small boat plans are""certified"" by no one ,except the designer.
Boy , you must absolutely love EU bureaucracy in your daily life, being such an advocate for bureaucratic rules governing every ones life'! Or, are you such a bureuacrat yourself?
 
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Someone once said, "never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" You seem to fit the criteria perfectly.
 
A few impressions of some of the stuff posted gives me the impression of an unhappy old bloke trying to justify they way he chose to live his life.
It seems as though he is doubtful about the situation he now finds himself in having got no close persons he can relate to. When he made those decisions all those years ago he did not think about how he would get on when old (how many of us did in our twenties).
So if his dream of his perfect boat made of some wonder stuff is now found to be wanting then his life would seem to be not as fulfilled, thus he must defend his way and rubbish and dissenters.
 
I have just finished reading Peter Ustinov's autobiography " Dear Me ".

On page 248, these words of his might be applicable to a regular poster here. They are:-

"His own evident lack of wit makes him impervious to the wit of others; his own inability to listen makes him immune to argument; his own tortuous train of thought wears down the opposition; his unnaturaly slow and often muddled delivery force quicker minds to function at a disadvantage, below their normal speeds.
Whenever he is compelled to admit he does not know, he does so with an inflection suggesting it is not worth knowing."

Anyone come to mind?

Ustinov was, of course, writing about Senator McCarthy, the commie basher.

But, IMHO, its a good fit...............................
 
Back to boats . I find it amazing how many designers and most local builders use 1/8th inch plater for keels. Lead is almost always far more expensive than steel ,and using heavier plate, and less ballast for keels, is far easier to use and keep fair, as well as offering a much wider margin, should corrosion problems appear.
Perhaps designers like the numbers, in terms of ballast ratio, for advertising, despite the difference between thin steel and thicker steel instead of more lead , has almost zero effect on performance .
I use 1/4 inch plate on keels, half inch on the bottom and leading edges .
Most comercially built sailboats around here use only 1/8th inch plate for keels, some even for keel bottoms. How "Professional""öf them! Where's the logic?
 
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Mister E said:
A few impressions of some of the stuff posted gives me the impression of an unhappy old bloke trying to justify they way he chose to live his life.
It seems as though he is doubtful about the situation he now finds himself in having got no close persons he can relate to. When he made those decisions all those years ago he did not think about how he would get on when old (how many of us did in our twenties).
So if his dream of his perfect boat made of some wonder stuff is now found to be wanting then his life would seem to be not as fulfilled, thus he must defend his way and rubbish and dissenters.
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Alan Farrel died a couple of months short of 90. He lived the free cruising life all his life. In his 80s he decided he was getting too old for living on his boat ,and moved ashore, a ""big mistake"" he said, and got back on his boat as quickly as he could , finding shore living as boring as watching paint dry . He said if he had his life to live all over again, he would do exactly the same life style as he did.
I feel the same . I had the free use a of a big house with all the luxuries, any time I wanted , for years ,but three days there, and I couldnt wait to get back on my boat. Last time I lived long term on land, was after losing my ferro boat on a reef in 1975. I was between boats. As soon as my new boat was barely liveable ,I quickly moved aboard.
Here in Mexico, I am on land for 3 weeks, and despite the snow back home, I am looking forward to getting back aboard. 4 more days.
When I was in my 20s, and talking about the cruising life ,people would say "Ya", thats OK now ,but what are you going to do when you are 40? They were well programed, by fear mongering employers and loan sharks.
Sure glad I never bought it, or I would have spent my entire life working , in debt( never had a penny of bank debt in my life ) fearful of not doing exactly what everyone else is doing , being told what to do ( for the bankers and employers benefit, not mine).
I suspect the latest gang of trolls here, are those who benefit from suckering others into playing their game, and those trying desperately to justify their own dead end, boring choices.
When the mounties did pot raids on one island , the local chickens got so stressed, they stopped laying eggs. Those in commercial egg farms are cramped in body sized cages, to cramped to move ,but keep on laying. No stress, they just dont know anything else . Just like treadmill walkers.
 
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Achosenman said:
Someone once said, "never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" You seem to fit the criteria perfectly.
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Don't know why I am argueing with you. You fit the criteria perfectly , unless you consider being told what to do, for someine elses benefit ,your entire life ""Wise.""
I dont !
An old Scot I met , on my first Pacific crosssing ,told me of the day he quit his job, to go cruising .His boss said ""I think man was meant to serve.""
He replied ""Ï dont know who has been serving me. I feel like I have been screwed."
It went right over his boss""s head, without connecting .
 
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Brent Swain said:
Ask the folks at Boca de Toro Panama, or the shipayard in Suva. Some also deny the holocast, with the same arguements. Did they fake the moon landing? Those who said smoking is good for you? Your kind of people!
If every such incident was widely reported in the media papers and magazines would be as thick as a New York phone book, and they would quickly go bankrupt. Many stories and videos we see her are nowhere to be seen in the regular media and hard to find here.
Stability curves were done by former critics. None has ever capsized. in over 350,000 miles of ocean cruising.
You suggest every grounding results in major world wide media coverage?
Would a doctor, having sailed from BC to New Zealand and back, take a boat he has sailed from BC to Mexico and Hawaii and back , around Cape Horn , and to the Aleutians , had she had stability problems? Then recommend another 36, Tagish, for a friends circumnavigation, after all that experiennce with the design. Search Tagish.
Search Silas Crosby
There goes your credibility!
You want detailed plans ? Pay for them!

95% of small boat plans are""certified"" by no one ,except the designer.
Boy , you must absolutely love EU bureaucracy in your daily life, being such an advocate for bureaucratic rules governing every ones life'! Or, are you such a bureuacrat yourself?
Click to expand...
 
Brent, this thread might have been about SteelBoats, but you have (as usual) turned it into about you and your rants about steel verses GRP. Nobody really cares about your constant repetition of the stories about the very few cases that you keep quoting as proof of your ideas, not to mention your frequent attacks on anybody who might just point out you are mistaken, or just plain wrong. It is getting very tedious reading about your 'crusade' to save people from risks that are very low in the real world.
Get a grip on life, though it might be a bit late. Also, try and stay away from the wilder accusations that people who disagree with you might be holocaust deniers or don't believe in the moon landings.

Also, learn to use the quote bits, you have quoted yourself, but not. Bit confusing to readers. Though there can't be many left now.

By the way, some time back, you posted about a stability curve for your boat at 183°. Then you said it was a typo. So, it is OK for you to make them , when they sound unlikely....
 
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