Steelboats

[rotrax]

Where did you get the data to come to that conclusion?
Certainly doesn't tally up with many long distance long term cruisers, probably the only area where steel really does come into it's own with criusers choosing the material which will look after you well off the beaten track with no outside help.

Certainly long distance off the beaten track cruisers, not so sure about the long term bit.

Many old steel boats are worth so little it is not financialy viable to put the time and money in to give them a new lease of life.

Of course, if you don't have a job and a family, have lots of time on your hands, the skills and equipment to do the work, somewhere to do the work without draconian H&S regulation, it is a goer. Most are not in this position.

Despite the views of others, many 50 year old early GRP vessels are still sound and giving good service.

As I said to Brent, horses for courses.

 

[rotrax]

Many living enviously of those in good steel boats , as many of them have told me.

That's funny BS-I am a sociable guy, sailing fair distances around my home waters each season where I meet dozens of liveaboard long distance cruisers.

Not one has said to me " I really want to get shot of this stock plastic boat and get a steel yacht. "

I can only draw one conclusion from this-they are happy with their choice-as I am, with a steel boat in the Pacific and a GRP boat in the UK.

I don't get the term you use "living enviously".

Now answer the point about the thousands upon thousands which we all know exist-you cannot possibly have spoken to a fraction of the sailors cruising the oceans of the world in GRP boats.

You live in a parallel universe BS-no one else meets sailors who's lives are not complete without a steel boat. Most sailors I know want a bigger/ smaller/newer GRP one. Tell a lie-one guy is determined to have an aluminium Ovni.

The above is just hearsay, like many of your snippets of information. No way of proving it, is there?

If steel boats were as good as you say, were as cheap and easy to build why do boatbuilders make boats from timber, GRP and Aluminium in far greater numbers than steel?


Most of the potential issues you go on about a steel boat surviving do not concern prudent sailors who use proper nav, watchkeeping and keep away from surf coastlines. Hitting a whale or negative buoyancy container is pretty insignificant statisticaly for 99.9% of sailors.

Just so you know BS, many years ago the UK made the fastest climbing interceptor jet fighter in the world, the English Electric Lightning. The wings were riveted and glued on with a two part epoxy, which as you know is a type of PLASTIC.

 

[DownWest]

"
For the safety conscious, and the practical, there is no such thing as a "Proper" wooden boat.

Yet another uninformed, rubbish, statement. Covey Island Boatworks produced some excellent wooden boats.Tom Cunliffe commissioned a 40ft from them and RM yachts, near here, are obviously conning their many clients. Just two wooden boat builders that are highly respected.

You just have to accept that most people do not want steel boats, quite simple really.

 

[bbg]

" Proper " boat is defined by what your priorities are. If impressing the Joneses, at the cost of safety, is your priority ,then plastic or wood is "proper. If asking no questions and not thinking ,but just doing what everyone else is doing, and believing what every one around you believes , then stock plastic is "proper." Just as sure as believing the world was flat, and the sun and planets revolve around it, was once considered "Proper."
If safety, and freedom from worry about hitting things in the night ,if the ability to survive a severe grounding in big surf, a collision with a freighter, rocks , etc, zero thru hull problems or deck leaks , zero cleats and zero fittings,working loose and leaking ,or breaking off altogether, if the ability to take a 360 rollover with no leaks or danger to the hull and decks is your priority , then plastic is anything but "Proper." (Yes GRP means glass reinforced PLASTIC!) Then only steel is "proper."
Many people who prefer steel are extremely experienced cruisers, including a lot of my clients. Anyone who wants a plastic boat can have one for very little money. Some are even being given away. No, the cost of a plastic boat has nothing to do with people choosing steel. Steel boats built by more traditional methods than mine are very expensive, yet some go that route anyway ,for the safety it offers. They wisely choose steel, for the reasons given above.
For the safety conscious, and the practical, there is no such thing as a "Proper" wooden boat.

You are wrong. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people - who could have had a rust bucket if they'd wanted - have chosen GRP, which is superior.

I know you think steel is better. You have been driven into that corner by your lack of funds and lack of navigational skill, which regularly lands you on the rocks. Steel is probably the best choice for you.

But many thousands of others can afford a better boat and are more competent with their navigation and pilotage. For them, GRP is the best choice.

Give up your one-man crusade Brent. You are demonstrably wrong.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

You are wrong. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people - who could have had a rust bucket if they'd wanted - have chosen GRP, which is superior.

I know you think steel is better. You have been driven into that corner by your lack of funds and lack of navigational skill, which regularly lands you on the rocks. Steel is probably the best choice for you.

But many thousands of others can afford a better boat and are more competent with their navigation and pilotage. For them, GRP is the best choice.

Give up your one-man crusade Brent. You are demonstrably wrong.

The thing is Brent is also demonstrably right. It all depends on your priorities which will be influenced by experience. One doesn't come across this paranoid phobia of rust when talking to experienced liveaboard cruisers.

 

[NormanS]

There are some wonderfully entrenched positions on this thread, some gained by experience, some through blind prejudice. That's OK, but I do find some of the personal abuse a bit wearing. You might say, "Well stop looking", but it is quite entertaining, as is watching paint drying.

 

[GHA]

The thing is Brent is also demonstrably right. It all depends on your priorities which will be influenced by experience. One doesn't come across this paranoid phobia of rust when talking to experienced liveaboard cruisers.

Bang on, amongst the bickering Brent does actually speak sense hidden away in the more extreme views, very few if any on here have the experience to have a reasoned discussion back. Steel works but load of work to get spic and span and a boat which is easier to keep that way, getting a factory built boat doesn't help down that road, in many ways home built is better.

 

[dom]

I know you think steel is better. You have been driven into that corner by your lack of funds and lack of navigational skill, which regularly lands you on the rocks. Steel is probably the best choice for you.

But many thousands of others can afford a better boat and are more competent with their navigation and pilotage. For them, GRP is the best choice.

Suspect you're on the right track there: steel is fine if you're able and happy to do lots of regular work and not too bothered about performance. Also great to repair off the beaten track.

But for those who fancy metal and who aren't short of a few bob, I would have thought that aluminium has got to be the better choice.

 

[A1Sailor]

There is a lot to be said for using British Steel for voyaging.:encouragement:

I think Chay Blyth was able to avoid sailing into troublesome rocks in mid-ocean, but he too was obviously a fan of metal boats.

Leaving the Solent on October 18th, Blyth’s journey did not get off to a good start: the yacht was rammed by a boat in the flotilla of vessels that came out to see him off!

But he was soon on his way and all seemed to be going well, until he was off South America and was caught in a strong wind – the rigging mechanism jammed leaving him with full sail in a gale. He climbed the mast to free the mechanism, risking life and limb, and from there it was not an easy trip.

A force 9 gale in the Pacific knocked him into treacherous ice fields, damaged his self-steering system beyond repair and left him with a severe head injury.

On the rest of the journey, he encountered many storms that bent the mast and drove him again massively off course. He later said if the boat had not been steel hulled and ‘built like a submarine’ he would have been in much more trouble. As it was he was forced to remain at the tiller for more than 20 hours at a time to stay safe.

But he made it home to Southampton on August 2nd – with a boat that was in pristine condition according to reports at the time after 292 days at sea. In a stroke of good luck, Blyth sailed home just in time for the Cowes Week regatta and was welcomed as a conquering hero. As he stepped off the boat he was greeted personally by the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Edinburgh, Princess Anne and Prime Minister Edward Heath.
https://www.bythedart.co.uk/british-steel---made-on-the-dart/

 

[rogerthebodger]

But for those who fancy metal and who aren't short of a few bob, I would have thought that aluminium has got to be the better choice.

I have a steel boat and most of the rust in my case is on deck not on the hull.

This is due to the sharper edges you get in the deck where the paint can crack and let water underneath.

Brent uses stainless steel to cover sharpish edges which can overcome the problem to some extent.

If money was no problem I would have a boat built from cupronickel that does not need any painting at all not even anti fouling.

To me the next best is a steel hull with an aluminium deck and superstructure.

Don't forget the cost of the hull and deck is only a smallish part of the cost of a boat what ever the material the bull is made from.

One of the advantage of GRP boats is that once you have the mold the production of lots of similar hull size and shape is quite quick and with internat molded sittings.

Its batch production that brings the cost of GRP boats down.

Wood, steel, aluminium and ferro are all one off type production with hand built internal fitting out.

 

[dom]

I have a steel boat and most of the rust in my case is on deck not on the hull.

This is due to the sharper edges you get in the deck where the paint can crack and let water underneath.

Brent uses stainless steel to cover sharpish edges which can overcome the problem to some extent.

If money was no problem I would have a boat built from cupronickel that does not need any painting at all not even anti fouling.

To me the next best is a steel hull with an aluminium deck and superstructure.

Don't forget the cost of the hull and deck is only a smallish part of the cost of a boat what ever the material the bull is made from.

One of the advantage of GRP boats is that once you have the mold the production of lots of similar hull size and shape is quite quick and with internat molded sittings.

Its batch production that brings the cost of GRP boats down.

Wood, steel, aluminium and ferro are all one off type production with hand built internal fitting out.

Some good points here. I suppose one cld also use titanium if sufficiently flush

Detailing, design and time seem to be key with steel. Also, I recall you putting up some pics of yours after it took a hell of a pasting and it seemed to survive very well indeed.

 

[Wansworth]

On the dirty British coaster we had a constant battle with rust and always admired the Dutch especially the barges that had rust under control ..

 

[DownWest]

Around the end of the 19 century, there was a racing boat in the big class made of, I think, cupro-nickel on iron frames. Very thin skin and rivited. Prob was, they were not aware of the galvanic issues and it had to kept out of the water between races as it virtually fizzed when in salt water and would have dissolved in short order if left in for any time.

As for Titanium, read the book about the building of the SR-71 Blackbird (Skunk Works) if you think that is an easy option

 

[dom]

Around the end of the 19 century, there was a racing boat in the big class made of, I think, cupro-nickel on iron frames. Very thin skin and rivited. Prob was, they were not aware of the galvanic issues and it had to kept out of the water between races as it virtually fizzed when in salt water and would have dissolved in short order if left in for any time.

As for Titanium, read the book about the building of the SR-71 Blackbird (Skunk Works) if you think that is an easy option

Was that Defender, a Nathanael Greene Herreshoff build for the 1895 AC? It had bronze plating on steel frames to the waterline and aluminium above. I recall Herreshoff knew all about the saltwater galvanic issues but were happy if Defender lasted until the end of the event.

And she did the deed by winning the 1895 AC before fizzing away into the sea!

 

[DownWest]

I think it was built in UK, but would need to 'refresh' my memory. NGH's boat does sound a galvanic nightmare, but it lasted for the job.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Shameless cut and paste from Wikipedia:

Defender was the victorious United States defender of the tenth America's Cup in 1895 against challenger Valkyrie III.[2] Defender was designed by Nathanael Greene Herreshoff and built by the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company in 1895. It was Herreshoff's second victorious America's Cup defender design.

Builder: Herreshoff Manufacturing Company
Launched: 1895
Broken up in 1901

Defender was a sloop with all-metal construction: steel, aluminum, and manganese bronze. It was owned by William Kissam Vanderbilt, Edwin Dennison Morgan and Charles Oliver Iselin, and skippered by Henry C. Haff.

Defender defeated the New York Yacht Club's Vigilant then went on to defend the cup against British keel cutter Valkyrie III. Lord Dunraven of the Valkyrie alleged cheating by the Defender's crew.

Following the contest, Defender was towed to the residence of C. Oliver Iselin in New Rochelle, New York where it remained docked for four years without sailing. In 1899 J. Pierpont Morgan and W. Buttler Duncan rebuilt Defender to race trials against the America's Cup defense candidate, Columbia.

The yacht was towed to Herreshoff's Bristol yard for restoration to enable it to race in the selection trials for the 1899 defence. Following the selection trials, Defender returns to its mooring and was finally broken up in 1901.

 

[rotrax]

It all depends on your priorities.

And there you have it.

If you are worried about sinking, going aground in big surf, hitting freighters, whales, sunken containers and steel barges, there can only be one choice.

If on the other hand you are a realist and know the statistical possibilities of the above disasters happening and don't want to worry about corrosion, you choose something other than steel and keep top safety equipment to hand.

Not that top safety equipment is redundant on a steel boat-the odd one has been known to go to the bottom you know...……...

 

[GHA]

And there you have it.

If you are worried about sinking, going aground in big surf, hitting freighters, whales, sunken containers and steel barges, there can only be one choice.
..

Rubbish, loads of people cruise successfully long distance in grp boats as well

 

[DownWest]

GHA
How long have you been in Bruce's fettling your lacework cruiser? Are you now yearning for something in, ahem, plastic?

 

[GHA]

GHA
How long have you been in Bruce's fettling your lacework cruiser? Are you now yearning for something in, ahem, plastic?

Ages the cost of neglected maintenance (and no great rush plus laziness plus working slower than a sloth on prozac) , a factory built boat with loads of design flaws and not knowing more about what makes a low maintenance steel boat which it will be soon with nothing bolted through , no wood touching steel. All stuff Brent knows and has talked about, wish I knew that a decade and a half ago
Also some hefty changes to the boat to make it simpler and stronger which would be near impossible in grp without loads of money rather than some welding rods & paint & time.
Don't really fancy plastic, too much of a worry off the beaten track. Well, some days but that would be a cop out, sort the boat once then the maintenance gets so much easier which is evident from the little bits sorted over the years. Drifting round the solent with maybe a week in france in the summer than plastic for sure!.

Whats a lacework cruiser?