Steelboats

[rogerthebodger]

Some good points here. I suppose one cld also use titanium if sufficiently flush

Detailing, design and time seem to be key with steel. Also, I recall you putting up some pics of yours after it took a hell of a pasting and it seemed to survive very well indeed.

Yes Dom

We had a complete breakup of the marina and the steel pontoons got jammed up a really damaged a lot of boats.

The pics I posted were all above waterline but I had her out 2 months ago and found a douge 5 meters long 300mm below waterline and a dented steel rudder.

Repaired by removing loose rust with electric wire brush. Painting with hydrochloric acid then phosphoric acid followed by several coats of epoxy tar then antifoul.

More pics in the link in my sig

 

[DownWest]

Ages .

Whats a lacework cruiser?

Not a slur on your manhood but a hull that when you are inside is well illuminated by the multiple perforations in the skin......

Edit: I nearly forgot to pick up my coat >>>

 

[GHA]

Not a slur on your manhood but a hull that when you are inside is well illuminated by the multiple perforations in the skin......

Edit: I nearly forgot to pick up my coat >>>

Ah, OK , don't have one of those. Little bit to sort in hull yet where water was sitting - bad design/build again. First time on hull took days, second a few hours and couple quid rods. Hoping to not have much more practice other than all the changes

Top tip for anyone looking to head off to the unknown in steel - get someone who's cruised on one for years to look at a potential boat first rather than a surveyor (or worse, ask on a forum! ) Few know about steel

 

[Graham376]

GHA
How long have you been in Bruce's fettling your lacework cruiser? Are you now yearning for something in, ahem, plastic?

He would have been out of there a lot sooner if not distracted by socialising but each time we go back can see progress.

 

[GHA]

He would have been out of there a lot sooner if not distracted by socialising but each time we go back can see progress.

Not easy getting work done & gigging up and down the Algarve in 2 of the best bands around

 

[Brent Swain]

On the dirty British coaster we had a constant battle with rust and always admired the Dutch especially the barges that had rust under control ..

Yes, get it right and rust is not a problem, get it wrong and it can be a nightmare. So simple ,get it right.
If you spend less that 3 1/2 days a year on maintenance, far more time than I spend on average ,it is less than 1% of your time. The rick is to stay on top of problems ,and nip them in the bud, not a whole lot of work.
Thousands of people simply buy whatever is advertised the most, and believe whatever the person selling the most advertised, tells them.

 

[Brent Swain]

And there you have it.

If you are worried about sinking, going aground in big surf, hitting freighters, whales, sunken containers and steel barges, there can only be one choice.

If on the other hand you are a realist and know the statistical possibilities of the above disasters happening and don't want to worry about corrosion, you choose something other than steel and keep top safety equipment to hand.

Not that top safety equipment is redundant on a steel boat-the odd one has been known to go to the bottom you know...……...

If you believe in good seamanship, that consists of leaving as little as possible to chance, and not simply relying on luck and odds, to stay afloat and safe, then steel is your best choice.
The Sleavin family didn't worry enough about hitting freighters. Skippers of the many boats which were pounded to bits in Cabo in 82 didn't worry enough about it . The ones who spent many weeks adrift in a life raft, after hitting a whale, didn't worry enough about it. The statistics said they were all safe.
( 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.)

 

[Brent Swain]

Shameless cut and paste from Wikipedia:

Defender was the victorious United States defender of the tenth America's Cup in 1895 against challenger Valkyrie III.[2] Defender was designed by Nathanael Greene Herreshoff and built by the Herreshoff Manufacturing Company in 1895. It was Herreshoff's second victorious America's Cup defender design.

Builder: Herreshoff Manufacturing Company
Launched: 1895
Broken up in 1901

Defender was a sloop with all-metal construction: steel, aluminum, and manganese bronze. It was owned by William Kissam Vanderbilt, Edwin Dennison Morgan and Charles Oliver Iselin, and skippered by Henry C. Haff.

Defender defeated the New York Yacht Club's Vigilant then went on to defend the cup against British keel cutter Valkyrie III. Lord Dunraven of the Valkyrie alleged cheating by the Defender's crew.

Following the contest, Defender was towed to the residence of C. Oliver Iselin in New Rochelle, New York where it remained docked for four years without sailing. In 1899 J. Pierpont Morgan and W. Buttler Duncan rebuilt Defender to race trials against the America's Cup defense candidate, Columbia.

The yacht was towed to Herreshoff's Bristol yard for restoration to enable it to race in the selection trials for the 1899 defence. Following the selection trials, Defender returns to its mooring and was finally broken up in 1901.

Steel aluminium and bronze ? What a battery of mixed metals. They knew little about the galvanic scale back then, altho I have been told Herrechoff was sitting on the dock at the time of launching, with aluminium and steel in a bucket of seawater ,watching them fizzle.

 

[Brent Swain]

Rubbish, loads of people cruise successfully long distance in grp boats as well

I have never said they don't ,only that they would be safer in steel, and far fewer would have the Sleavin family experirience, or go missing.

 

[Brent Swain]

Ah, OK , don't have one of those. Little bit to sort in hull yet where water was sitting - bad design/build again. First time on hull took days, second a few hours and couple quid rods. Hoping to not have much more practice other than all the changes

Top tip for anyone looking to head off to the unknown in steel - get someone who's cruised on one for years to look at a potential boat first rather than a surveyor (or worse, ask on a forum! ) Few know about steel

Yes, with every improvement, the amount of maintenance work gets less and less.

 

[Brent Swain]

There is a lot to be said for using British Steel for voyaging.:encouragement:

I think Chay Blyth was able to avoid sailing into troublesome rocks in mid-ocean, but he too was obviously a fan of metal boats.

How old is she now? So much for the limited life expectancy of steel which some claim!

 

[Brent Swain]

How long did it last?
The Brits thought aluminium decks and superstructures were a good idea. The numbers jugglers loved it, until the Antelope burned like magnesium in the Falklands war. They believed the odds of that happening were "insignificant. " Then reality hit.
Those who believe math should always over ride common sense and logic, are severely lacking in the latter.

 

[Brent Swain]

He would have been out of there a lot sooner if not distracted by socialising but each time we go back can see progress.

When you push yourself too hard ,without the breaks ,you get less done overall, than if you gave yourself a break from time to time.

 

[sarabande]

Brent, it really would help the discussions move forward if you tried to be less provocative, and also less blind to the benefits of GRP boats. Your "steel is infallible" approach really wrecks useful, creative, debate.

We all know that steel is fine for certain types of sailing, and GRP is fine for others. Why can't you just leave it there, and answer the minor technical design and maintenance details.

Even as one of your supporters, I am beginning to lose patience.

 

[Brent Swain]

Ah, OK , don't have one of those. Little bit to sort in hull yet where water was sitting - bad design/build again. First time on hull took days, second a few hours and couple quid rods. Hoping to not have much more practice other than all the changes

Top tip for anyone looking to head off to the unknown in steel - get someone who's cruised on one for years to look at a potential boat first rather than a surveyor (or worse, ask on a forum! ) Few know about steel

Excellent advice! Right on!

 

[Brent Swain]

Suspect you're on the right track there: steel is fine if you're able and happy to do lots of regular work and not too bothered about performance. Also great to repair off the beaten track.

But for those who fancy metal and who aren't short of a few bob, I would have thought that aluminium has got to be the better choice.

When the steel for my 36 was around $6K the aluminium was around $20K.The welding equipment was also far more expensive, both to buy and to run. Unless one worked only on dry, flat calm days, aluminium work has to be done indoors, a big expense, whereas a steel boat can be built in any back yard. It's far easier to get a bad weld in aluminium than in steel, and even the good ones aren't 100% strength.
Steel has it's corrosion problems mainly above the waterline, where you can see it and easily deal with it. Aluminium has its corrosion problems below the waterline, where it can happen very rapidly, and go a long way before you become aware of it. It's hard to find a really effective antifouling for aluminium which wont eat it with electrolysis.
With an alternator powered by my main engine , I can weld steel anywhere. Aluminium welding is far more complicated.
Some say aluminium needs no paint on deck .On my aluminium dinghy ,in the tropics, I had to paint the back white, so the sun's accumulated heat wouldn't burn my feet. A couple I met in Tonga on an aluminium boat, said it took til 2 AM for the boat to cool down enough to let them sleep. Bare aluminium heats up enough to burn the soles off your feet , in the tropics. They need to be painted white. True it is just to keep things cool, and is not as critical as on a steel boat.
Rubbing against bare aluminium can turn your clothes black.

 

[Brent Swain]

Brent, it really would help the discussions move forward if you tried to be less provocative, and also less blind to the benefits of GRP boats. Your "steel is infallible" approach really wrecks useful, creative, debate.

We all know that steel is fine for certain types of sailing, and GRP is fine for others. Why can't you just leave it there, and answer the minor technical design and maintenance details.

Even as one of your supporters, I am beginning to lose patience.

All progressive, thinking outside the box , challenging orthodoxy and innovation is seen as provocative . Without doing so ,all progress is thwarted.

ie "Gutenburg we hate your type!"
"Ben Franklin go fly a kite!"
"Columbus , you can't sail around the world. Everyone knows the world is square!"
To which he replied;
"I know they are!"
The list goes on.

 

[geem]

All progressive, thinking outside the box , challenging orthodoxy and innovation is seen as provocative . Without doing so ,all progress is thwarted.

ie "Gutenburg we hate your type!"
"Ben Franklin go fly a kite!"
"Columbus , you can't sail around the world. Everyone knows the world is square!"
To which he replied;
"I know they are!"
The list goes on.

I think this may be where the problem lies. You see yourself as somebody great. At the end of the day you just make steel boats that the general sailing populous don't want. I don't think you will be remembered in history alongside Columbus. May be if you had discovered the potato...............

 

[rotrax]

How long did it last?
The Brits thought aluminium decks and superstructures were a good idea. The numbers jugglers loved it, until the Antelope burned like magnesium in the Falklands war. They believed the odds of that happening were "insignificant. " Then reality hit.
Those who believe math should always over ride common sense and logic, are severely lacking in the latter.

The Lightning was in front line service until ICBM's made interceptors redundant. About 16 years.

You seem to know a great deal about the finance, design and construction of warships too Brent-is there no end to your talents?

 

[Brent Swain]

The Lightning was in front line service until ICBM's made interceptors redundant. About 16 years.

You seem to know a great deal about the finance, design and construction of warships too Brent-is there no end to your talents?

All I had to do was read the papers during the Falkland war. Did you?