Starting Out

[GoCatGo]

I am TOTALLY new to sailing. I do appreciate that my concepts of what i need and am capable of are probably wrong, so i was hoping someone out there could help me out with a little knowledge.

I am now 25years old and in two years time my end goal is to be able to sail a reasonable sized yacht ( alone when necessary ) around the med and maybe further. I plan to live on the boat and pay my way working bars on land and taking people out for a days sailing etc ( i accept that this may infringe some laws ).

Firstly, learning to sail? Where should i start, how far do i need to take my training for what i want? , what do i need (qualifications etc) to sail in other countries waters, and any general advice.

Boats? I am currently envisaging myself aboard something around 30 - 35 ft. Budget wise i'd like to keep it within £20,000. Can i sail a boat this large alone??? Does auto pilot make single handed sailing viable? Any suggestions?

Budgets? I have read much around this topic and i am still quiet clueless. Initially i thought of having around £6,000 in a bank account drawing upon it when needed and replacing funds when possible, Is this absolutely crazy??? I am keen to keep costs down, eating aboard and only drinking the local beer!

Working? Has anyone else tried to support themselves whilst cruising? I thought of bar work at popluar tourist destinations like Malaga, Minorca etc . Does anyone have an inspirational story or know of others who've tried the same thing?

I understand that this plan will never make me a millionaire, but at least i'd be free.

Please post relpies, even if you think i'm an idiot. All thoughts good or bad may help.

Many thanks





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[Anonymous]

A good start would be to go sailing a few times. That way you'll see if you like it and many of your other questions will be answered at the same time. But how? It all depends on where you live, what time off you get, your working hours, can you make a contribution if someone gives you an opportunity to crew? With so many unknowns, including your personality, fitness and preferences, it's hard to give much more help.

If you have the ability to earn a living taking jobs here and there when the opportunity arises in the Med then you should be able to arrange a few sailing trips without too much more help. You could do a lot worse than spend few hours reading through the forums on ybw.com

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[Marnajana]

Do a "competent crew" 4 day course as soon as possible (goiing for approx 300 pounds (accomodation and meals excluded in South Africa - remember the "Cape of Storms"?!) This course will quickly indicate if sailing is really moonshine and cocktail umbrella all the time.Once this ticket is yours beg, crawl, plead for trips and especially race days and weekends - bottom line : market , market and market.
As to buying a boat - maybe first the above then come and shop in South Africa, the Rand /Pound exchange rate makes you millionare!
Go for it!!


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[Infr137]

I agree with the other posts. If u still like the idea after passing "Competant Crew", then go for "Coastal Skipper" as well.

I purchased my cruising boat last year. "Leisure 23SL" (sleeps 5, so plenty of accomodation for 1/2 crew), my plan is similar to yours but to take a couple of yrs out living on the boat & taking to/sailing round the Med.

The travelling bug came mainly from my younger brother, who happily travelled the world for 4 yrs living in nothing but a single man tent.

I have also spent many hrs, surfing the YBW & other related forums to discover that people have done circumnavs in as little as a 12 footer (crazy Russian I think) & a "Leisure 17" has done the atlantic run a few times.

So with proper training, careful Nav & being ruled by favourable conditions only I don't see my trip as being that unrealistic.

Hope this helps.

R...

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[tcm]

um, you are so new to sailing that the best advice can only be to do some more first of all, as others say.

To answer some questions

- yep, you could single hand a 30 footer, and two people could handle even twice this size or maybe more.

- Abroad, you may accept the idea of breaking a few laws but in many places the cops don't and have the power to stop your boat or impound it.

- it would be very good idea to have some sort of portable skill that can earn money.

- be careful of the idea of being "free". I have many friends who have treasured the idea of being "free" and succesfully bummed around for years. Now, aged 40 something they are free of family, career, money, house, foreign holidays and lots of other things with which they would quite like to be entangled. Blokes having to make multimillion pound divorce settlements, company going doen the toilet, buying the wrong boat, getting ripped off in various transactions...all sound bad in the papers but are a higher class of problem than you being in a sometimes-sunny place with a broken boat and not being able to afford to get the boat fixed cos you only have 1500 quid in the entire world.


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[jhr]

Being \"Free\"

I agree that being free can have drawbacks that are not immediately apparent to you when you're young, footloose and have nothing to lose, but it's probably better than <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.guardian.co.uk/britain/article/0,2763,1206761,00.html>being an un-person</A>.



<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[tcm]

Re: unperson and Ulysses

hm, that's a bit of extreme example!

Interesting how his parents were travelling loners and he follows suit. Genetic, a bit? Thus, vaguly, the sort of style of life (not "lifestyle") your parents folowed might be something to bear in mind. No mention of this in calculating Ulysses quotient for liveaboard sailors and perhaps there should be....

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[jhr]

Re: unperson and Ulysses

I wonder if it's genetic or whether he was pitched into a wandering life (as he obviously was) and just carried on that way because it's all he ever knew? Round 5,726 of the nature vs nurture debate...... Nevertheless, I suspect that many people who give up the errant liveaboard life in the early days do so because they didn't realise, in advance, how much they would miss the comfort and security of bricks and mortar, and I think this is a question that more should ask themselves before they take any irrevocable steps.

I thought it was fascinating that he has managed to live all these years without an official identity, and that (putting aside Guardian and jhr-type noises about not paying taxes /forums/images/icons/wink.gif), that he is obviously fiercely independent, and takes pride in never having claimed benefits etc. Not a stereotypical "Traveller".



<hr width=100% size=1>Je suis Marxiste - tendance Groucho

 

[Infr137]

Re: unperson and Ulysses

Hmmmm this seems to be getting more interesting by the minute. :0)

Yes, think very carefully about the word "Free" & what it means to you. It has different meaning to different people as would "unperson". If ur young & fit enough to take on such an adventure, then do it! But bear in mind all the advice above particularly re. funds/work.

I've done the Mortgage, Family, career thing and to me personally, it's the being tied into rediculously high mortgages, being part of the rat race working with people you don't really like that can make someone an "unperson".

IMPO I'd rather live on a boat I own outright, than have the insecurity of living in bricks & mortar which could potentially get repossesed just because the mortgage rates went thru the roof.

Your identity is within yourself. If you want it to be official, then make sure you have a passport! ;0)

So if you have the travelling bug, do it before you get too tied into mortgages, career etc. (if that's what you end up wanting).

R...

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[ubuysa]

<font size=1>As to buying a boat - maybe first the above then come and shop in South Africa, the Rand /Pound exchange rate makes you millionare!</font size=1>

Last time I was in Cape Town (Jan 2003) I looked at doing just that. Your countrymen have already caught that one though, all the boats I was interested in were priced in US dollars!

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[GoCatGo]

Thank you everyone who has replied.

TCM - not quite sure what you trying to say. Obviously i do not want to end up 40 something with no money, home (not necessarily House) or family, neither do i want to find myself resenting the people and stuff i surround myself with because I never tried. I'd like to be somewhere in the middle, but much later in life.

'Free' probably does mean many different things to many different people, in many different contexts. Mine is personal to me, as yours is to you.

Does anyone have some good websites i could view to help me out?





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[DavidJ]

Working

With ref to working.
As an example there is a guy doing just that in our marina just outside Rome. As long as you are completely flexible then you should be able to scratch a living. He has a tatty car and does runs to the airport, he will clean masts and do oil changes and fetch and carry for the livaboard community who generally won't have transport.
You will need to keep a low profile so as not to upset the marina official maintenence staff (or the 'real' taxis)
best of luck
David

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[Nat]

As regards to taking people out sailing for the day be very carefull. Im based on the Costa Blanca and often take people out fishing, or out to the Islands for lunch in the Mar Menor. As I know lots of ex pats who live out there my trips are for friends of friends and I always explain to them that they are guests, only contributing to the fuel costs ect and not hiring the boat for the day.Im happy to get an expense free day & a free meal. If you start blatantly touting for charter parties the locals will soon suss you out & next thing you know plod will impound your boat.
With regards to finances as someone has already said. I think you will need a little bit more to fall back on than what you think. boats are an expensive hobby & if you get a serious problem the money you are talking will go nowhere.
I spent quite a lot of time on A 80' motor cruiser Allied Princess moored Botafoch Ibitza back in the eightys & used to do work on engines, do a bit welding ect on other boats to earn a few quid. ok for beer money ect. It was a great life, but I could'ent earn enough money out there to maintain my share of the boat & was constantly dipping into my bank account.
To finish; You will get some sound advice from this Forum. I have. I suggest you digest it & maybe reassess your situation. Good luck if you do it right I dont think you will regret it.


<hr width=100% size=1>2655 ! You can tell me, I'm a Docter !

 

[tcm]

um, i suppose i don´t quite kow what you are trying to say either. You posted v coherently, but as though you saw getting away on a boat as downshifting, free of responsibility or hard work. Not much of sailing away into the deep blue yonder needs too much "trying". I run a company and loads of peeps turn up at 30-something having bummed around and "just want a chance". But they used their best chance elsewhere, their very best shot, when they were younger and nothing to lose on something else. So this won´t be their best shot, it´s a lesser option, a last resort, and lots of people ten or more years younger are ready to go for their career with less baggage, and with more expectation and less risk on both sides. Get some skills. No website helps you with real life.



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[scarlett]

There are quite a few people in Greece doing what you would like to do. They are living very cheaply in places where there are no mooring charges.

My recommendation would be to buy a small ish boat [ 7 - 9m] for less than half sum you suggested and keep your 15 grand in a high interest easy access account. Buy the boat in Greece. The sum mentioned will get you something reasonable in which to live and sail.

You will get boat cleaning and maintainace jobs in your first summer and this will be enough to live on but in the winter you will need your savings. The following summer you might be offered better paid jobs such as flottila manager or skippered charter skipper on day trips for legit operations. These might stack up enough funds to last you over the winter if you work hard and save. At this stage it depends on you whether you make it work. Your desired standard of living might be too high for your funds or you might become an alcoholic or you might have a great life.

Like other posters-- it depends on you in the end.



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[Marnajana]

...."buyer beware!"or some strange language "emtptor cavat!" . Agents are agents and even in Cape Town you can say "... aa, but that's the nature of the Beast!" Forget agents - shop on notice boards in yacht clubs - carefull for any yacht club with the word "royal" in it! Have a look in Hout Bay, Mossel Bay,PE, even Knysna, watch our Cape Argus newspaper. And then....with some possible - inspect , look, inspect, look, search for the hidden, search for the undecleared and get an EXPERIENCED boatowner and also an own builder to make some comments. Watch out for possible/pending EU regulations on engine emmisions.

By the way , what about own builders who lost their dream and are looking for
buyers?

The bottom line : ... stick to your dream and DO it! Comms these days can make you a rocket scientist or helicopter pilot over the internet if youre looking for a supporting skill.



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[poter]

Ok to answer your questions factually, without the "Meaning of life" comments....

a/ Starting to sail: Get on an RYA course, competent crew, Day Skipper & upward. Buy a small dinghy and learn to sail (with a life jacket) in a sheltered area, also join a yacht club & crew, you will get a lot of fun and learn what the wind does to the boat.
Do go sailing in ALL weathers to get a feel for the tides & wind, even if you are out walking see what the wind is doing & try & judge the force.
Get some good sailing books (There was a thread on this sometime ago, do a search) & immerse yourself in sailing on here - YBW, & mags. You mentioned the med. on a budget...try RYA Book of Mediterranean Cruising by Rod Heikell.

b/ Boats: Loads to choose from, yes you can easily sail single handed on a 30-35 footer. For your budget, look at: Twister, Moody 30, or Westerly, I have chosen these as representative only, & good sea boats IMO, not necessarily the ideal cruising yachts. Have a look at as many boats you can, & do think about resale value.
You may also get a great yacht in say Greece for a better price.

c/ Personal expenses: you could easily live on £6000 a year. But the boat would also require some dosh. Maintenance costs. Insurance, the occasional marina cost, etc. Very difficult to quantify! if you lived like a local in say Greece, £6000 is a fortune. But if you live like a Brit. in France, £6k aint going nowhere.

d/ Working: Keep a low profile and you can easily work in bars etc. IMO Do not try and do any charter work, you get caught, you loose the lot.

Last but not least.

G.F.I. you may never get another chance. BUT DO, plan & prepare.

Good Luck.


Poter.


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[happyfish]

I Say Go with your dreams as yours are simular to mine and many others.
I done a competent crew course in the Isle of white (£300) It helps get to know a bit about the most basic stuff for sailing. there are also alot of other stuff you need to learn that is cheap(ish) or free
1: VHF course (£50) Nothing worse than not knowing how to call the coastgaurd or harour master.
2: boat repairs. If you are not practical minded this can be very expensive. so see if you can give someone a hand out of season for a few hours a week.
3: 1-2 day outboard and inboard engine maintanence course (aint no AA at sea)
4: buy or take a dingy course. it will help you understand the wind and sail setting a bit more
5:look for crewing oppertunities on the net or at local clubs.
there are hundreds of people that need a hand But you have to sell yourself the right way.
6: read books true stories as these will help keep the dream alive.
(Trade wind Hitchers) http://www.tradewindhitchers.com
7:learn to juggle cos if all else fails

I live in the med camping for 6months on returnable bottles.

If dont ever do it. at least you wanted to


<hr width=100% size=1>Sunset smells of Dinner I Must end my tales see you the next quiet place
I furl my sails

 

[Marnajana]

You're killing us!!! - so please inform us mere curious mortals what your decision was....pleaaaaassse.
Are you settling for that 8 to 5 bank job,are you doiing an around the world in a 16 footer flogging empties at excotic beaches. Did you buy that BARGAIN in Zanzibar ?
....but please some info!!!
Cheers

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[Mollari]

All I can say is go for your dreams, my husband and I are planning to move to the med and we ignore any negative comments. We are saving hard and working to get our boat to a high spec. I am lucky that I am married to a marine engineer and electrician, so that saves costs and we are prepared to take work where we can get it. There are never really problems, only opportunities to learn and expand. This is an excellent statement to live by.

If you don't try it you will always wonder what it would have been like. I recommend a fantastic old movie to watch called Reach for the Skies, it will show you that anything is possible.

<hr width=100% size=1>http:\\mysite.freeserve.com/leisure_marine_prep