"Lightweight" dinghy for 2 adults - pico alternative

[Mark-1]

I sailed one adult one child in an optimist... its something you only do once!

Yeah. I tried to sail 30m from a pontoon to a slipway in that format. I made it 20m. Before it was swamped by the sheer weight of my son. (It can't have been me, I'm quite trim.)

They certainly look bigger from the outside than the inside.

 

[michael_w]

Enterprise. Nimble and very agile, plenty of room inside and usually local racing if you want it. Plus there loads of them about. Older plywood boats better than old GRP ones. Bow bulkhead a must have to stop nose diving after a capsize.

 

[oldbloke]

Title says "two adults" and then "pico alternative". For 2 adults pretty much anything is a better alternative. .He needs to come back clarify and expand

 

[slawosz]

Again, sorry for confusion. This is what happens when I try to post during 5 minutes break
No, son is not an adult, he is nearly 13 and growing.
The reason I am asking for 2 adults is that I am looking for a boat that we could grow into. Or take a guest on my own.
I sailed Pico with my son last summer, it was lot of fun, and ergonomy is great. In case of capsize (I was very surprised we didn't), its easy to put up and climb into - easier than any other boat.
Hence the idea of similar boat - something bigger, but still easy to maneuver on a slippy hard, friendly for a single sailor. I think what I am looking for is 20% bigger pico!
But for next 2 seasons, I am probably happy with Pico.

Vareo is nice idea - will take a closer look.
I took a good look at Lark dinghy - does it requires lot of skill? - I can comfortably sail Laser up to force 4 (and survive in 6). Would you put (question to people who seen Lark up close) an tiny (2hp) outboard in Lark or its not this kind of dinghy?
The engine would give me ability to explore creeks, but again, I don't want anything heavy. And for exploration, I could ask around and someone could lend me something bigger like Wayfarer.

 

[oldbloke]

A Lark won't easily take an outboard. Enterprise, Gp14 or Leader would and could be found in your price range. The thought of a dad and his lad exploring the creeks is lovely, but is it realistic?. Sitting at the from of an Ent getting cold wet and bored is not a good recipe. It's got to be fun and approaching cool. A pair of lasers might work, or maybe a Fireball?. Spinnaker and trapeze is more like it.

 

[Puffin10032]

I took a good look at Lark dinghy - does it requires lot of skill? - I can comfortably sail Laser up to force 4 (and survive in 6). Would you put (question to people who seen Lark up close) an tiny (2hp) outboard in Lark or its not this kind of dinghy?
The engine would give me ability to explore creeks, but again, I don't want anything heavy. And for exploration, I could ask around and someone could lend me something bigger like Wayfarer.

The Lark is essentially a slightly stretched 1960s National 12. It's a far more demanding boat to sail than a Laser (which is actually very stable and mild mannered for a racing dinghy). If your intention was to race regularly then yes and your son could have a lot of fun in a Lark. But it seems that you actually want some sort of cruising dinghy which, whatever its design, is going to be quite heavy (because weight imparts not only strength but also increased stability). I'm not convinced that the boat you want exists.

 

[slawosz]

I'm not convinced that the boat you want exists.

Me neither. I think I would stick with Pico - still quite a lot of time until summer to consider other options.
For pottering round (getting my son bored really!) I have Sadler 25

 

[dancrane]

The brief is definitely branching out.

Initially I was thinking Laser 2, rather than two Lasers...

...the Laser 2 was a reasonably popular and fairly thrilling ride, meant for two crew but ineradicably fixed in my mind by this instructional manual cover-picture of a chap singlehanding one under all sail...

...and I reckon the photo might still encourage a young sailor to attempt such heroics.

But if you're wanting some restrained creek-crawling exploration, especially with an outboard, that does call for a different boat.

Not that an outboard couldn't be mounted, even on a Laser...with enormous care and expenditure, some brilliance and weeks of effort, I fabricated a bracket that allowed me to fit my Tohatsu on the back of my late Osprey, without drilling any holes in the boat or reinforcing her structure...

...it's so darned good, I'm not keen to part with the bracket, even now I don't have the boat (I could be persuaded to sell it, but this is scarcely the place).

If you need a small boat that can be single or two-handed, is manageable ashore, cheap as chips with plenty available, and will happily explore mud-holes under sail, oar or engine, don't turn your nose up at the Mirror dinghy, because for simple fun, it does it all.

This fellow's adventures in his Mirror make me laugh because he often has a can of beer and a cigar midmorning...

...meanwhile, this Mirror sailor, another singlehander, took his round the Isle of Wight. He doesn't come across as barmy, either...

 

[dunedin]

At 13 he may prefer sailing his own boat - hence adding a Topper to your fleet might be a practical option. Great junior sailing in many places, from just messing around up to top flight racing, depending on preference.
In terms of two person boats, I found the Lark tended to scoop up a lot of water if roll tacked too hard or otherwise not carefully sailed. And certainly unlikely to be a “General purpose” boat.
But there are so many alternatives may come down to where exactly you want to sail - best boat for local reservoir may not be ideal for other waters,

 

[onesea]

At 13 he may prefer sailing his own boat - hence adding a Topper to your fleet might be a practical option. Great junior sailing in many places, from just messing around up to top flight racing, depending on preference.
In terms of two person boats, I found the Lark tended to scoop up a lot of water if roll tacked too hard or otherwise not carefully sailed. And certainly unlikely to be a “General purpose” boat.
But there are so many alternatives may come down to where exactly you want to sail - best boat for local reservoir may not be ideal for other waters,

He’s got a point, would you be better with 2 boats?
Depends what your sons goals are in all this. At 13 I was as intrested in reggattas and evening discos.
I am not certain a Lark would be considered more hard work than a laser, but that’s just opinions.
Dinghies for outboards do change the conditions some what. The space need for the outboard, extra weight etc. the other option is paddles

 

[ashtead]

Personally for a 13 year old I would just buy him a cheap Topper secondhand -my daughter at 5ft ish bought from sea scouts second hand and sold it on a few years later - we did sail a few times 2 up but not really comfortable . You really need to decide usage I guess and your degree of participation -a r/s fever might be out of budget but you could sail that with him or he could race with a mate . It’s what Oppie sailors grow into I believe down at Lymington. Fireballs are very wet and I would not go there having owned one for a few years - you don’t say where you plan to sail but if on an inland pond maybe have a look at the club noticeboard as you might pick up something secondhand that races there. If looking to sail in Solent in say a harbour your choices might be different. Ideally a grp mirror dinghy of course will fit you both and the outboard etc plus the many other things needed -buy mirror mania book if interested in this route.

 

[dancrane]

The lad won't thank you if you buy him a Topper. I had one at 13. I wasn't tall or bulky for my age, but it was a bit of a joke even then, 40 years ago. Not sure why everyone keeps suggesting it, robustness is its only virtue. A Byte CII is much better to sail - like a Laser, but smaller.

Funny how if you ask a specific question on the internet, the whole wide world of possible answers brings you right back to the same place (with some of the very same people giving advice!), nearly a decade earlier... Sailing dinghy recommendations please

 

[dunedin]

The lad won't thank you if you buy him a Topper. I had one at 13. I wasn't tall or bulky for my age, but it was a bit of a joke even then, 40 years ago. Not sure why everyone keeps suggesting it, robustness is its only virtue. A Byte CII is much better to sail - like a Laser, but smaller.

Funny how if you ask a specific question on the internet, the whole wide world of possible answers brings you right back to the same place (with some of the very same people giving advice!), nearly a decade earlier... Sailing dinghy recommendations please

I think you are perhaps missing the point somewhat. I suspect those of us suggesting a Topper are thinking more about the Person than the Boat (perfectly good boat though a Topper is, albeit not for 2 adults!).
There are exceptions, but most teenagers seem to prefer sailing with other teenagers rather than boring old parents.
And it depends a bit on location, but in many/most places there is an active Topper community - covering all levels from beginners to championship sailors. Messing around with other teenagers in Toppers may be more fun than sailing a “better” boat with adults. Other classes exist but Topper is perhaps the most broadly based - in terms of both geography and skill levels. ICLA / Laser 4.7 for example, tend to be much more serious racing oriented, with less of the “messing about in boats” option,
Not always the case, but just suggesting based on real life experience.

 

[dancrane]

Yeah you may be right Dunedin, I really didn't like other kids or teenagers even when I was one, and making friends wasn't why I had a boat.

Nor did I have any time for racing, even then - I really should have had a Mirror or Heron or Gull, with oars, anchor, boom-tent and British Seagull.

But the Topper was distinctly sneer-worthy as a teenager's boat - as soon as you could, you advanced to something that wasn't equally suitable for much younger kids. Maybe kids today aren't burning to be older and abler - although that would surprise me. A sailing friend of my non-sailing father recommended the Topper because the Laser sail was definitely too powerful for me at 13. It still would be today, but the Laser has broadened its appeal a lot since then.

While I suppose it taught me a fair bit, I mainly developed the desire for anything that wasn't a Topper.

But it sounds like whatever dinghy Slawosz gets, isn't exclusively for the lad's entertainment, but needs to offer two-up day-sailing too.

The 420 is still a good little two-man boat - race-bred, but from the old days when performance didn't preclude being tough and practical. A benefit of using a race-bred boat for cruising is that the designer won't have ignored weight-reduction as a goal. There was a lad at Chichester who would trapeze his, singlehanded, all the way to East Head. That didn't make me love my Topper, either.

 

[ashtead]

I think in suggesting the Topper I was going for a cheap option to be sold on after a year/2 years on basis the idea was to avoid a Lazer but trips learnt as a child in a Lazer can also be learnt in a topper . Once 2 up sailing is more the norm then you really need to know the area and intentions - if the dinghy is to be parked on a trailer near a London based pond it’s afar different choice to a car top boat being taken out to a variety of destinations I suspect. It might be that if this boat is a day and son thing then a solid trailer able boat for 2 is the realistic option but if a boat mainly sailed by the son then might be worth finding a club and then looking at boats sailed there . The Topper might be uncool but it has the advantage of cheap and loads around but I agree not the sort of thing sailed down at the Royal Lym but Olympic inspired youngsters who have graduated from Oppies. I see the OP was in London so maybe a club on the Thames with a dinghy park is a starter solution with an old enterprise type dinghy .

 

[SvenH]

Why do you want light weight?

I ask because I built my own optimist size nesting dinghy with light weight in mind, which ended up at 35 kgs.
I then found out it is too wide to easily lift on to the car, which was another criteria.

 

[B27]

For a typical 13 YO male, the cheapest way forwards might be a 4.7 or Radial rig for the laser, the different sails and lower masts are often around secondhand.
I sold a radial mast for £40 IIRC and £100 should get a pretty good used sail, one OK for learning on should be cheap or cheaper than cheap.
So long as he's heavy/strong enough to right it after a capsize. That's easier with the smaller rigs though!

There is nothing wrong with Toppers, but I was a bit big for one by about 15.

 

[Lightwave395]

An old Lark might fit your bill, can be picked up for very little. Or firefly, mirror? Graduate, Heron.

I'm 80% through refurbishing a Lark, never actually sailed one but I crewed in 505's for a guy who had been National champ a few times.
It looks like it will be a bit of spritely fun with grandchildren this year, It's a Parker GRP boat, was cheap to buy and with the mods to bring it up to date will be on the water for under £250 looking smart and with decent gear and half decent sails too, might even do the odd club race.
I did a similar project with a GP14 during Covid, a heavy barge of a thing the grandchildren and I got tired of and rid of quickly.