Start of a dream

[Padz]

It's slowly dawning on me that it would actually be possible for me to go long distance cruising! Many hurdles but none impossible to overcome. So to fuel my dreams , what boat would the panel prefer? At the moment I sail a Vega 27'. Too small for me to to live on. Initial thoughts are 32' ish, steel hull would be nice, need to be able to sail singlehanded. 2 boats which might fit the bill are Contessa 32 & Nicholson 32, but the grp hull might be a worry if you wallop a container mid ocean. All thoughts and encouragement welcome!!

Paddy B

Paddy

 

[tcm]

have a look at www.shantooti.co.uk steel hull and lots of kit. Excellent site for pratical dreaming.

 

[ccscott49]

I can't believe that boat is still for sale! If i didn't have mine and was looking, I'd be sailing her now! The gear onboard is worth that money!

 

[Padz]

My, wouldn't that do nicely! Bit out of my budget, though. Realistically, I could raise about £35k. Maybe 30 for a boat and another 5 to prepare her. Are steel hulls mostly one offs?

Paddy

Paddy

 

[ccscott49]

Lots of steel hulls are built to plans, you can even get kits of precut and bent steel to weld together. The Dutch are the world leaders in this technology. I would be considering wood composite, wood or steel, for long distances or even fiobreglass, with the bottom epoxy treated.

 

[tcm]

I think praps you have been reading "sell up and sail" which rather leaves one with the impression that a non-steel hull means that you'll die nastily.

In fact, steel hulls need a fair bit of maintenance, and altho you will be fine if you hit things, hundreds or mebber housands of people crusie the world in grp. You'll have have much comfier time in the longest hull you can find/afford, imho.

 

[ccscott49]

I agree with you TCM, why everybody thinks steel is so wonderful is beyond me! Steel was used for big ships, because it's CHEAP, thats the only reason at first, when they became humongous, they couldn't use anything else. Steel is a pig to maintain, lots of condesation (if not really well insulated) noisy and gets bloody hot underfoot in hot climates. Wood is still a very good material, it's still around and can be made very strong, I don't know why people say its so difficult to keep up, mine isn't and you know she looks well, no rot in her atall in 37 years, thats not a bad record!

 

[tcm]

Re: longdistance liveaboard

agreed. Another advantage of wood is it's sheer flexibility in terms of strong yet beautiful designs, so lots of storage become a standard feature and actually adds to the strength, and in turn, having lots of storage means that the owners have tons of booze on board, so will likely be ratarsed and happy to sell the boat for a song!

Seriously though, for long-time liveaboarding I would say best...
1. Not spend more than 75 % of the boat budget on the initial purchase.
2. Except in UK, keeping the sun off you is more important than keeping rain off.
3. Most of the fallen-off containers have been stolen or have sunk. Far more dangerous imho to power around shorlty after after big storm when whole trees litter steep (eg some med) coastlines.
4. Icemakers are totally fabulous.
5. It is impossible to have too much rope or too many fire extinguishers. You're more likely to need these to tie up or put fires out on a neighbouring boat, as well as your own. Same applies to medical gear and of course, money.
6. You have enough general-purpose tools if you can visit a Castorama (France) and buy nothing.
7. Self-inflating lifejackets sometimes work. I soaked three and only one went off.

over to others?...

 

[ccscott49]

Re: longdistance liveaboard

Talking of icemakers, when am I going to get my secondhand one? Quite right about rope, you never have enough! I agree with the fire extiguishers aswell! Not a lot to add actually, apart from maybe an efficient ANCHOR!!! in fact a unch of them! I'm actually considering an icemaker, it would fit in with my energy saving plans, I know doesn't make sense, but I will explain.....at new year time! But they are a bit expensive!! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: longdistance liveaboard

the other icemaker disappeared as it was a bit crap. Whereas the new one makes ice in the shape of the letter D for "Diana" which I think is rather swish.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: longdistance liveaboard

Flash git! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Padz]

Funnily enough, "Sell up & sail" is on the shelf along with many others though that wasn't specifically what pointed me to steel. Instinctivly, if I'm going to head off I'd like to be in a solid strong as it gets boat that will forgive me if I bounce it off a rock or three. But I've been alive long enough to know that nothing is black and white, there are always trade offs and compromises, maybe more so with sailing. thats why I thought it would be a good idea to ask here, get all the views. What about the budget? - £30k ish for a boat and £5k to sort her out. It may be my first full season sailing but I've figured out that with boats 30 plus 5 equals 40. And any suggestions for boats that might fit the bill?

TIA
Paddy

Paddy

 

[Guest]

Hi,

Unless I am totally missing the point - which is quite possible - steel is great for adverturous sailors with a large budget. If you get into serious trouble with the lumpy bits that don't bob up and down then it will survive.

Steel is hard work. It is a really silly material to make boats out of because it is destoyed by the environment it is expected to work in. A lot of effort has to be put into keeping steel protected from rust. Ever passed a scrapyard? Nearly all of the cars that are scrapped are there because they faild the MOT due to corrosion problems.

In my opinion you would be better to find a decent second hand wharram cat. Your space is increased because you deon't need to worry about heel and you have a huge area to use in port. They are cheap, very seaworthy and easy to maintain. They have an excellent safety record.

They are inexpensive.

But, hey, each to their own. Wouldn't it be a boring old world if everone was perfect and already sailed a catamaran?


Regards Fred.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

[ean_p]

Tish tish tish.......nothing wrong with steel at all.....no more maintenance then any other material if the initial prep was good and about somewhere between plastic and wood if it wasn't so good.....in addition steel can be repaired anywere in the world...with a genny on board a small angle grinder and a cheap 240v 13amp welder i can repair most but the severest damage to the hull of my boat...concievably even beach her and make a good structural repair between tides...sure it 'll look as ugly as sin but old man sea wont know the difference between that and a bought one.....try that with a hole in fibreglass or even timber really thats of course if you can get the materials of the right quality and the skills to use them...not to mention having the right environmental conditions.....sure they build commercial craft out of steel...thats 'cos its cheap, easy to repair, dependable, and far stronger then the alternatives, for a given outside dimention you have more room then a timber one and as much as a plastic one. Insulation and ventilation stop condensation and the internal environment is as good as if not better than plastic, though not as 'homely' as timber. Finaly after holing the next biggest fear is fire....ever seen a fibreglass boat burn......give me wood anytime and thats bad enough.....if working with steel is not alien to you then steel is the way to go....go timber if your an enthusiast and plastic if the other two categories don't suit.....

 

[Guest]

Wood - fabulous but lots of man hours to keep very nice.
Steel - Great strong can be ugly, modern protection is excellent
GRP - Low maintenance, tend to be production boats, strength depends on designer/builder and build quality.

They are all good in their own way. I used to have wooden boats, but cannot spare the man hours now. I have never owned a steel boat but have a friend who is currently building one. I do own a top quality GRP vessel and she is fabulous.

You could do worse than the Rival 34, good well built boat, strong and seakindly, easily handled, classic blue water cruising yacht. Available for about £34,000 but try and get a factory finished yacht or at least one that was finished to a very high standard. Home finished versions are either awful or excellent. Good owners association The ROA www.rivalowners.org.uk lots of advice and blue water experiences to draw upon. Good Luck and have fun.

 

[Padz]

Rival 34 looks nice. Someone mentioned buying in the states which after leafing through yachtworld.com does seem a lot cheaper. Has anyone had any experience of buying over there? I suppose you could spend some of the money you saved fitting out nicely in Florida or wherever for a couple of months and then head off. VAT might be a prob coming back to the UK, is it pre 1997 when it doesn't apply? Another solution would be not to come back!!

Padz

Paddy

 

[peterk]

hi padz,
I bought several boats in the US.
It's dead easy.
All you need to re-register the boat is an adress
- in the State where you buy it.
c/o a friend is okay,
(general delivery is not).

Florida ist best for the sheer amount of boats on offer
- hence the lowest prices. Also California.
In both places you have great cruising once you get started:
Bahamas and Carribbean / Baja California and the Sea of Cortez.
Go for it!

Best of Luck

...peter, www.juprowa.com/kittel

 

[Ozblah]

Dear Paddy,

I reckon you're on the right path. A limited budget restricts you to the older GRP full keelers that are now regarded as overbuilt compared to recent GRP yachts. A smaller full keel yacht will be `flying' at 6 or 7 knots on a cruise and more likely will sailing at under 6 knots most of the time. Older smaller GRP yachts with good skin thicknesses will be quite hard to hole. Generally the yacht will simply stop when it hits something in the water.

Larger GRP yachts, especially race boats with core hulls, are right to be nervous about containers given their higher hull speeds, higher displacements and skin thicknesses often no greater than some of the older smaller yachts.

Steel yachts are at risk of being dogs in the sailing department at under 32 feet. Only the ones that are carefully built with an eye for excess weight will be decent sailing yachts.

Resale is also a consideration. If you buy well do most of the work and sell well you'll be in a better position financially for the next yacht. A smaller GRP yacht (30-35 feet) with good resale value leaves all your options open or you may be pefectly happy with it and end up circumnavigating.

Classic mistakes:

Buying as much boat for as little money... You'll end up with the never ending project and the fast track to the death of a dream.

Buying an orphan design. If it isn't popular it isn't popular...Probably poor sailing characteristics and poor resale.

Tired timber/steel/ferro yachts beyond your skills/budget to render seaworthy...you may have the skills but restoring old timber yachts is generally time consuming and more expensive than you think.

Spend money on ensuring rudder, rudder stock and pintles/bearings are A1
Ditto rig,keel/hull join, replacing windows.

Just an opinion....good luck.

James

 

[PaulJ]

Paddy, have a look at Alan Pape's "Ebbtide", 33ft steel "go anywhere" boat. 'Not sure if you would get one for £35K.... maybe if the spec wasn't too high? Have a look at http://cfpm.org/~scott/conachair/ to see what she looks like. Good luck!