Start engine or not during winter storage?

[BruceK]

I have always had teething issues after a winter layup on the hard, I have never had them when the boat was in the water over winter and used just once or twice in that period. I am all for running the engines. In my experience of all engines from dink out boards and lawn mowers, weed whackers to motorcycles and classic cars in storage. The longer you leave an engine un run and not in a specifically designed stored state the more damage and unreliability you create. Lets face it. Most boats engine rooms are damp at best. Circulate the oils.

 

[vas]

I'd agree as far as 2T engines are concerned (and particularly the ones with mixed petrol/oil in same tank)
not so sure with big diesels though.
During the rebuilt which was meant to last 6m and ended up 4yrs, I just left them untouched, even removed the batteries, and only fired them up a couple of days prior to relaunch to check new day tank/pipework and filters.
Fired on the first crank. Last winter the same, was in the water for 8m never bothered to fire them up, did so happily in June.

 

[kashurst]

There isn't a right answer, Volvo are correct in what they say, except you end up putting fresh seawater through the cooling system and exhaust each time you start and run the engines. Problem then is the heat exchangers bung up faster and your turbochargers and exhaust rot faster. I usually connect up a fresh water supply and hose pipe, run the engines for five or ten minutes to flush out any seawater then shut it all down and leave it alone until the next period of proper use.

 

[Greg2]

Interesting that we have been talking about boats that are in the water. Many spend the winter on the hard, where running them isn’t really an option so no decision to make.

I don’t recall having any real issues with starting diesels after they have sat for months but agree with vas - a different story with two stroke petrols!
.

 

[Portofino]

There isn't a right answer, Volvo are correct in what they say, except you end up putting fresh seawater through the cooling system and exhaust each time you start and run the engines. Problem then is the heat exchangers bung up faster and your turbochargers and exhaust rot faster. I usually connect up a fresh water supply and hose pipe, run the engines for five or ten minutes to flush out any seawater then shut it all down and leave it alone until the next period of proper use.

Thing is the corrosion thinking is flawed .
The correct way is to flush with fresh antifreeze or better still a anti corrosion flush .Its this that the manufacturers recommend not water .All water does is dilute an the seawater in the cavities , not arguably in the crevices where said corrosion is festering .
At the end of the day it’s the anodes that protect the cooling apparatus.They either work or don’t .
If they need some sort of DIY assistance via fresh water cooling then theres something seriously wrong .I mean every time you use the boat and seawater runs through you ( if I understood your post correctly and Westermans ^ ) are accelerating the demise vis seawater corrosion ?

Further complicated by the materials the cooling apparatus is constructed, I mean the dissimilarity of the metals , the anode protection , wether the galvanic isolator it any fitted is doing its job , if shore power is connected etc etc .
CAT have well documented CAC rotting issues to the extent of loosing a class action U.S. lawsuit and now to cover there arses recommending in the service schedule the CAC s are a throw away item at 6 yrs .Ouch !

This is the granular detail if not running to prevent corrosion.It depend on the marque .

DAW quoted D13 and MAN 900 s recommendation’s. = to run them mainly for the oil circulation and gen parts movement thingy i eluded to in my first post on here .

I think it helps corrosion by way of moving fluids and in some way exercising seals , gaskets from dry seepage ?
Its a given the thing is fully anode protected from said corrosion.That’s a none issue you are not decreasing it’s protection running them .Otherwise “ we not going out today folks because of the corrosion risk “ never mind the met !

I realise a post 2007 CAT a owners ring might get twitchy leaving seawater sloshing about , but when it comes to sell it a diligent owner is once the boats 7 is gonna expect to see a huge CAC replacement bill in the service history.
Just like a 4 yr old Ferrari …you need to see the cam belt bill from last yr ( 3 yr replacement intervals ) if it’s belted .
There‘s no in service DIY way of extending the life of the belts , the CAC a in CATs or indeed your coolers .
“ Its only done 3000 miles so it’s belts weren’t done because I never really used it “ - for the Ferrari eg .Thats rubbish .

Your coolers should be permanently anode protected …..Are they ?

I have great trust in manufacturers advise .See no reason to go against it because internet hearsay of my mate down the road did and it turned out OK .
What you don’t hear is when it goes wrong .

 

[DAW]

Here in the SoF, very few people take their boats out of the water during the winter months and even fewer winterise their engines. Most do not even bother with heaters or dehumidifiers. This is despite the temperature dropping to 5-10 degrees at times, and constant high humidity.

I asked the VP guy that looks after my boat and he said they have very few problems with boats maintained by crew through the winter or with local owners that run the engines regularly. Most of their difficulties occur on boats that are left untouched from the end of one season until the start of the next and the main source of problems (at least with VP engines) is internal corrosion and calcification of heat exchangers and sea water pumps (leading to overheating issues and leaks), failure of seals and gaskets (usually because they have dried out) and sticking valves and turbos (resulting in fatigue and mechanical damage).

Following on from Porto's comment on anode protection, he recommends inspection and if necessary replacement of the pencil anodes in the cooling circuit at least every six months, and ideally every three, to help minimise the risk of internal corrosion and damage to the heat exchangers and sea water pumps.

FWIW, I've always been told by the Sunseeker engineers attending my boat that anything which has parts that are designed to move will benefit from being used regularly and not being left to sit over the winter. This includes not only engines and generator, but also anything that uses hydraulics, AC, toilets, black/grey water pumps, fridges, ice-maker, water maker, bilge pumps, etc. According to the Sunseeker owner's manual most of these things are supposed be either fully winterised when the boat is not in use, or put through a full duty cycle/used on a weekly/bi-weekly basis.

Obviously in the real world, most owners do not or cannot do this and experience no material problems ... but I think the guidance from manufacturers on what is best practice is clear.

 

[Portofino]

Here in the SoF, very few people take their boats out of the water during the winter months and even fewer winterise their engines. Most do not even bother with heaters or dehumidifiers. This is despite the temperature dropping to 5-10 degrees at times, and constant high humidity.

I asked the VP guy that looks after my boat and he said they have very few problems with boats maintained by crew through the winter or with local owners that run the engines regularly. Most of their difficulties occur on boats that are left untouched from the end of one season until the start of the next and the main source of problems (at least with VP engines) is internal corrosion and calcification of heat exchangers and sea water pumps (leading to overheating issues and leaks), failure of seals and gaskets (usually because they have dried out) and sticking valves and turbos (resulting in fatigue and mechanical damage).

Following on from Porto's comment on anode protection, he recommends inspection and if necessary replacement of the pencil anodes in the cooling circuit at least every six months, and ideally every three, to help minimise the risk of internal corrosion and damage to the heat exchangers and sea water pumps.

FWIW, I've always been told by the Sunseeker engineers attending my boat that anything which has parts that are designed to move will benefit from being used regularly and not being left to sit over the winter. This includes not only engines and generator, but also anything that uses hydraulics, AC, toilets, black/grey water pumps, fridges, ice-maker, water maker, bilge pumps, etc. According to the Sunseeker owner's manual most of these things are supposed be either fully winterised when the boat is not in use, or put through a full duty cycle/used on a weekly/bi-weekly basis.

Obviously in the real world, most owners do not or cannot do this and experience no material problems ... but I think the guidance from manufacturers on what is best practice is clear.

?Well put ^^^ .
You are a lot more eloquent than me .

Agree the anodes aren’t an annual , they are when they are ready .Not wanting to ignite another debate .If you can’t see them change them , or at least inspect them at the season end . This is a separate issue to running periodically the motors et al .
But worthy of keeping on top of .

As a one on one , so no scientific double blind study of a significant cohort , By regularly running stuff ( inc geny I forgot in I first post) in the 7/8 seasons I have only replaced a €15. Johnson geny tiny impeller.Which i changed myself .

I did have a sensor on a injector go ….where myself and Paolo became buddies ( Chris H have taken the brit mantle ) @ €2000 when finished . That’s it in repairs folks .It wasn’t a show stopper just a 2x BOAT .

Once in Dec I flew from Humberside ( Our farm is 15 miles away ) to Amsterdam got a connection to Genoa in December to do what/DAW and myself suggests. Had a 5 hr window to reverse the trip at Loano .

When in CH in March
A trip to the boat( and our other house in Antibes beckons)

 

[dpb]

I am wavering now..... which is where I was when I first posted.
If I was local to the boat then I would run it regularly no question. But as I am relying on someone else the risks change. What if he forgets to open the sea cocks?
Ok i will leave them open. New risks now introduced.
I suppose I would prefer no one else touched the boat in reality, just get them to check its still there, tied securly, not interferred with and electrics still on.
I will think longer.
Thanks for responses.

 

[QBhoy]

We have to be careful not to confuse , muddy the waters with storage, winterisation or moth balling , which I think QBhoy in post #8 if I understand his post is doing ?

It’s a simple Q posed by the OP
Do you start them or not ?

My self and DAW have taken the liberty to explain why we do what we do .

I think he is referring to leaving her over winter, if I’ve read it correctly.

 

[DavidJ]

Been in the Med (same boat) for 20 years and just leave it in the water all year round (around?)
Sometimes it’s 6 months between starts and so far it’s holding together well. Only real problem attributed to non use is my new turbos get stuck.

 

[Portofino]

I am wavering now..... which is where I was when I first posted.
If I was local to the boat then I would run it regularly no question. But as I am relying on someone else the risks change. What if he forgets to open the sea cocks?
Ok i will leave them open. New risks now introduced.
I suppose I would prefer no one else touched the boat in reality, just get them to check its still there, tied securly, not interferred with and electrics still on.
I will think longer.
Thanks for responses.

Yes morphing away from should you do it . To who does it ? If it’s not yourself can you trust them ?

They need to be able to open / close seacocks , turn everything on / off etc .

I have a guardian who I occasionally use to move the boat to ship yard and back for its annual .
Ex SY engineer .How ever I still post him pics of the tank valves , sea cocks etc as every boats slightly different .
Some times you have just gotta let go .

I leave a list of seacocks + fuel cocks in the saloon for my benefit , but he can read it too .Also a post it stuck on the helm
“ sea cocks + diesel tank valves “ There’s another under the plotter cover too .

What i am saying you need to plan it = another guy .Not just send a ad hoc text mid January on the off chance the recipient might get his hands on the keys .

 

[TK Blue MAX]

QUOTE. What if he forgets to open the sea cocks?

We always loop the engine keys round the sea cocks after nearly forgetting to open them one day, has worked for us for the last 15 years

 

[jcwads]

I like an occasional out of season run about in the med. You can get some lovely calm mild days. Anchor up, lunch and back again.