Start engine or not during winter storage?

[dpb]

We will soon be leaving our boat for 6 months over winter.
Located in South of France, 32ft with twin 200hp diesels on shafts.
Kept afloat.
The boat will be checked externally for any issues several times a week by friends who have their own boats on the same quay.
Internally the measures we took last year worked out fine, boat all clean and dry.
Engines were not started last year and no issues arose.
I have the option to ask said friends to start the engines once a month.
Is this a good idea or not?
What do others do?

 

[Forty_Two]

Not unless your friends will run them fully up to temp on load (props turning) & fully monitor everything including stern glands etc for any leaks.

I change my oils & filters before i leave the boat for the winter & never had any issues with up to six months. Also means i can get the oil analysis results over the winter for monitoring.

 

[Greg2]

Not unless your friends will run them fully up to temp on load (props turning) & fully monitor everything including stern glands etc for any leaks.

+1
No real case for doing so IMHO and perhaps some some reasons not to e.g. cold starts and engine wear
.

 

[Bouba]

I prefer to leave it until I use it again

 

[Portofino]

I do usually in Jan and March the cold months .They get up to 60 jacket which is enough to warm them and shift any condensation of water , or mix it with the oil .
I change my oil / filters at the start of next season to rid them of winter condensation and let them have fresh oil for the season .
Ive seen jacket temps of 8 in the med in Jan when I start them .
I do loosen off the mooring lines and turn the props to move the shaft seal somewhat .

They dry out oil wise so a 20 min run now and again re wets stuff with oil thats dried .
One yr ( cant remember when ) I planned to do the valve lash , adjust the tappets .I went down in Dec to remove a valve cover to suss out the tools and eye ball up the job .I was amazed how dry the top end was .
If you do this after a week it will be oily as one expects .

In the lockdown yr obviously with the travel restrictions etc It was left all winter untouched engine wise .The MAN engineer near the start of the season heard a “ sticky valve “ I could too once he pointed it out ,This a valve normally exhaust thats gummed up in its guide and not closing despite the spring pressure to do so .Its a ticking noise .Theses things undo themselves when heat gets in and stuff expands and the gums washed away with hot oil .It did as he predicted on the first run out .

Its suggested if oil is left untouched it’s starts to separate out inc the additive package , so a occasional mix seems a good idea .

Thinking seals and bearings , tensioners , diaphragms , impellers , and the diesel pump are better not left standing for too long .
In the classic car world they recommend regular winter running for these reasons .The garage queens tend to suffer more issues .

I run everything else up as well , toilets , water pumps , run taps , the AC , anchor winch .Flaps the rams , the rudder hydraulics Got a list .

As far as injector hygiene of not being able to reach 560 *c EGTs ( sorry Elassar I’ve mentioned the E word ) it’s only 20 mins runs not 10 s or hundred s of hrs at lower sub optimal EGTs .Aside it gets an Italian tune up after its service at the next season start ….burning any crap off .

Its not a binary decision it’s the net benefit of everything taken into consideration.

Fuel
I run the tanks down and put an extra dose of bug treatment in .I use the water dissolving type at every fill up btw in the season .
It just gets a winter shock dose on top .
Rationale is waters gonna get in anyhow from condensation in the air or leaky something , and the fuel will be stale from Oct to June .So by leaving as little as poss i can refill it with fresh next season .Got WIF alarms + transparent racor bowls with taps anyhow .After a winter warm up I do inspect the racors .
Then there’s the Boubs esq tank leak .One of the 2x 800 L will make a helluva mess and work the bilge pumps and 9iss off the marina .

As far as cold starts the fear of bearing wear ? That stems back to motors that fire without oil circulation, there’s a pause a few revs before the oil pressure is up .Modern bigger diesels turn over first to get the oil pump to circulate before firing .
Which is one of the points circulation + mixing + warming the oil .

There are ways of storing , moth balling engines but that’s not the thread .

 

[Seastoke]

Very surprised people don’t use their boat in the med in win

 

[MapisM]

This a valve normally exhaust thats gummed up in its guide and not closing despite the spring pressure

An extendable ratchet wrench with a 32mm hexagon socket is all you need to prevent that.
Just rotate the engine manually by 190 deg or so, and you'll be sure that any valve which was previously open will be closed.
I do that at least on a monthly basis whenever the engines are winterized, it takes no more than 2 mins each side.

PS: easy peasy to instruct anyone else to do that if you aren't onboard, BTW.
As long as you trust him/her to actually do the job!

 

[QBhoy]

I wouldn’t. Just leave the raw water side flushed or containing AF and run a dose of 2 stroke through her last fuel digestion period, if you’re fussy.

 

[vas]

Very surprised people don’t use their boat in the med in win

speaking for Greeks, unless you wear swimming gear and the sea is at swimming temps, no point in boating. Fishermen excluded obvs.
So boating season is June to Sept, fullstop. Chartering boating season is April to Oct though but then again it's foreigners boating ?

 

[julians]

Very surprised people don’t use their boat in the med in win

its not much fun boating in less than perfect weather.....


I dont run my engine at all over the winter layup, the boat just sits plugged into the mains keeping the batteries charged from september to april.

 

[DAW]

Over the years I've been given the same advice by Volvo Penta service agents for D12/D13 engines and by a MAN agent for an R6-800 ... run the engines every 3-4 weeks for 10-20 minutes and put them in and out of gear a couple of times in both forward and reverse to circulate "fresh" oil, coolant and raw water through everything, drive out any condensation and keep everything moving. In my experience 20 minutes is usually long enough to get the temperatures up to 50-60 degrees or so.

I challenged them about the conflicting view that diesel engines should not be run over the winter without getting them up to full temperature and in each case I was told this should not be a problem with modern engines and that the benefits of keeping things moving, well lubricated and ensuring all fluids in the engine are "fresh" outweigh the additional wear and tear of a few cold starts. However, they all also said there was nothing wrong with not starting the engines over the winter and it was very unlikely to cause any harm if oil, etc. is clean and in good condition.

So I guess you can make your own choice!

 

[Bouba]

Over the years I've been given the same advice by Volvo Penta service agents for D12/D13 engines and by a MAN agent for an R6-800 ... run the engines every 3-4 weeks for 10-20 minutes and put them in and out of gear a couple of times in both forward and reverse to circulate "fresh" oil, coolant and raw water through everything, drive out any condensation and keep everything moving. In my experience 20 minutes is usually long enough to get the temperatures up to 50-60 degrees or so.

I challenged them about the conflicting view that diesel engines should not be run over the winter without getting them up to full temperature and in each case I was told this should not be a problem with modern engines and that the benefits of keeping things moving, well lubricated and ensuring all fluids in the engine are "fresh" outweigh the additional wear and tear of a few cold starts. However, they all also said there was nothing wrong with not starting the engines over the winter and it was very unlikely to cause any harm if oil, etc. is clean and in good condition.

So I guess you can make your own choice!

Time to read my Cummins engine manual….I do tend to do things like they were done in the seventies…I once had a blazing row in the tyre shop about the correct way to rotate tyres..a quick Google later? meant I can no longer show my face…

 

[Portofino]

We have to be careful not to confuse , muddy the waters with storage, winterisation or moth balling , which I think QBhoy in post #8 if I understand his post is doing ?

It’s a simple Q posed by the OP
Do you start them or not ?

My self and DAW have taken the liberty to explain why we do what we do .

 

[DAW]

I just checked the Volvo Penta Operator's Manual for my current D13-900 engines. The actual text is as follows:

"If the boat is not used, but left in the water, we recommend you to warm up the engine at least once every fortnight. This will prevent corrosion damage in the engine. If you expect the boat to be unused for two months or more, we recommend you to preserve the engine. Please refer to Storage, page 144."

The section on Storage is two pages long and has a list of tasks to be completed, including fully draining and flushing the sea water system, removing the impeller, disconnecting the starter batteries, etc.. For stops of 8 months or longer you're also supposed to drain the engine oil and replace it with a special conservation oil.

It seems the official guidance from VP is clear ... unless you want to fully winterise the engine, you should be starting it fairly regularly and running it long enough to get it warm.

 

[Bouba]

Perhaps there should be a different routine when keeping your boat somewhere warm

 

[westernman]

I think the heat exchanger is the thing which suffers most from a boat not being used for an extended period of time.
If you are going to leave your boat for a long time, best leave the sea water side filled with the proper antifreeze stuff.

I have had to change a heat exchanger on my boat which had rusted through - fresh water leaking out in considerable volume to the sea water side.
I wonder if I had just left the boat alone over winter but filled the heat exchanger with anti-freeze whether it would not have rusted through.

 

[Portofino]

I think the heat exchanger is the thing which suffers most from a boat not being used for an extended period of time.
If you are going to leave your boat for a long time, best leave the sea water side filled with the proper antifreeze stuff.

I have had to change a heat exchanger on my boat which had rusted through - fresh water leaking out in considerable volume to the sea water side.
I wonder if I had just left the boat alone over winter but filled the heat exchanger with anti-freeze whether it would not have rusted through.

Depends on the quality of the thing the cooling apparatus.
What engine have you got that rotted it’s HE with seawater ? Following your logic if I understood it , the more you use it circulating sea water the faster the HE demise .Eh !

 

[westernman]

Depends on the quality of the thing the cooling apparatus.
What engine have you got that rotted it’s HE with seawater ? Following your logic if I understood it , the more you use it circulating sea water the faster the HE demise .Eh !

Yanmar 4JH2

 

[dpb]

Thanks for the responses.
So we have several folks who lock up for 6 months without running engines and without having issues. And others who give good reasons that I understand for making sure there are regular start ups.
Interestingly nobody yet has said that they left the engines without running and wish they had not due to issues they suffered.
With previous boats I always started once a month but they were either in my garden or at nearby marina. This boat is not so accessible.
If I do have the engines started by friend I would leave sea cocks open to reduce risk of overheat due to friend forgetting. Trouble is as soon as you give someone the keys there are a raft of things that can go wrong.
More people have said they dont run engines without problems than I expected and I am inclined to do likewise at the moment.
But I still have a couple of weeks to make my mind up.

 

[petem]

For what it's worth, I tend to arrange for my engines to be started a couple of times over the winter just to get the fluids circulating.

I don't see much benefit in warming them up whilst in neutral. Whatever moisture that's in them will soon return.

If I can persuade him, I do get my guardiannage guy to take the boat for a run round the bay.