youen
Well-Known Member
How are they built the boat is from 1996.I have heared you can have trouble with the foam between the inner and outer skin.Thanks
Starlight 35
- Thread starter youen
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Skysail
Well-Known Member
Nice boats. If you are seriously interested in Starlights or Sadlers it would also be good to look here:
http://www.mikelucasyachting.co.uk
There is a forum for technical questions
.
http://www.mikelucasyachting.co.uk
There is a forum for technical questions
.
That is a risk with all foam cored hulls however it does not adversely affect the reputation of nordic build yachts with a sandwich core construction. It has been widely stated that some Starlights had to be rebuilt around the keel due to a manufacturing fault. Not sure if this involved the 35s and/or 39s?
Apart from the manufacturing aberration the design is well regarded here. Tip: Make sure you can live with the aggressive deck anti slip pattern.
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Judders
Well-Known Member
A very good write up by Peter Poland in PBO this month.
I think the foam core is only as much of a problem as it is on all foam cored boats.
I think the foam core is only as much of a problem as it is on all foam cored boats.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Chapter and verse. I looked at an S35 myself and so enquired.
S35s are not foam-cored boats in the conventional sense.
They comprise an inner and an outer moulding, each in conventional GRP. Foam was injected into the voids between these two mouldings as a structural component, literally to glue the two halves together. On the vast majority of boats this worked perfectly well. However, fairly late in the design's life after Sadler had gone belly-up and Bowman had taken over construction, six boats were contracted out for moulding and foam filling. The contractors used the wrong specification of foam to inject, and it never fully set. Consequently, after the boats were sold, when the hulls were repeatedly heated by strong sunlight some volatile components in the foam were evaporated off. As the hulls repeatedly heated and cooled, this caused a partial vacuum, and the two mouldings were sucked together, moving the unset foam around. The outer hull moulding ceased to be fair - in fact it looked, I'm told, like a hungry horse, with its ribs showing. There was some cracking as well, around hard points. All these hulls were rebuilt at Bowman's expense, and the problem is supposed to have contributed in no small way to Bowman's demise. Sadler-built and Westerly-built S35s (Westerly was also subcontracted to Bowman) had no problems.
Unfortunately, on the mud-sticks principle, the Starlight range acquired a dodgy reputation as a result, and sales more or less stopped after the problems of those six hulls became known.
My info comes from an ex-employee of Bowman, and a yard manager who rebuilt one of them.
Hope this helps.
S35s are not foam-cored boats in the conventional sense.
They comprise an inner and an outer moulding, each in conventional GRP. Foam was injected into the voids between these two mouldings as a structural component, literally to glue the two halves together. On the vast majority of boats this worked perfectly well. However, fairly late in the design's life after Sadler had gone belly-up and Bowman had taken over construction, six boats were contracted out for moulding and foam filling. The contractors used the wrong specification of foam to inject, and it never fully set. Consequently, after the boats were sold, when the hulls were repeatedly heated by strong sunlight some volatile components in the foam were evaporated off. As the hulls repeatedly heated and cooled, this caused a partial vacuum, and the two mouldings were sucked together, moving the unset foam around. The outer hull moulding ceased to be fair - in fact it looked, I'm told, like a hungry horse, with its ribs showing. There was some cracking as well, around hard points. All these hulls were rebuilt at Bowman's expense, and the problem is supposed to have contributed in no small way to Bowman's demise. Sadler-built and Westerly-built S35s (Westerly was also subcontracted to Bowman) had no problems.
Unfortunately, on the mud-sticks principle, the Starlight range acquired a dodgy reputation as a result, and sales more or less stopped after the problems of those six hulls became known.
My info comes from an ex-employee of Bowman, and a yard manager who rebuilt one of them.
Hope this helps.
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Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Which is, it is no problem at all.
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
I have one. The problem that Ken referred to happened when the moulding of a few boats was subcontracted to Westerley and indeed the liability did finish off Bowman. This happened around 2000 so the boat you are thinking of is well before that date.
I've had 4 boats now - from Prout, Hunter Moody and Bowman - and this boat is by a long way the best built of the lot, with the Prout second. It's also the best sailing boat of the lot with the proviso that if I went long term sailing I would go in a cat.
Mine is a 96 boat. I'm picky and technical by background. I've yet to find a fault with the build with the possible exception that the drain from the anti syphon valve is lead into the small shower sump. And the stern tube like others these days is grp rather than bronze.
Comfortable reasonable sized cockpit, sail controls handy, decent sized winches, loose footed main with genoa cars, mast mounted spinny pole. Lots of light below decks with opening ports. Small khazi (by Moody standards) and smallish after cabin, but good forecabin and chart table.
You have a pm
I've had 4 boats now - from Prout, Hunter Moody and Bowman - and this boat is by a long way the best built of the lot, with the Prout second. It's also the best sailing boat of the lot with the proviso that if I went long term sailing I would go in a cat.
Mine is a 96 boat. I'm picky and technical by background. I've yet to find a fault with the build with the possible exception that the drain from the anti syphon valve is lead into the small shower sump. And the stern tube like others these days is grp rather than bronze.
Comfortable reasonable sized cockpit, sail controls handy, decent sized winches, loose footed main with genoa cars, mast mounted spinny pole. Lots of light below decks with opening ports. Small khazi (by Moody standards) and smallish after cabin, but good forecabin and chart table.
You have a pm
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Jason,
No, as far as I recall I was told the Westerly boats were fine, it was another constructor that screwed up, and they folded rather than face the liability claims from Bowman, which left Bowman to foot the bill.
And Galadriel, no, it isn't foam core in the sense that many boats are built with foam (or balsa) core in a single glass/foam/glass matrix. In this case there are separate mouldings, a male and a female, which are held together by foam 'glue'.
No, as far as I recall I was told the Westerly boats were fine, it was another constructor that screwed up, and they folded rather than face the liability claims from Bowman, which left Bowman to foot the bill.
And Galadriel, no, it isn't foam core in the sense that many boats are built with foam (or balsa) core in a single glass/foam/glass matrix. In this case there are separate mouldings, a male and a female, which are held together by foam 'glue'.
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
Ken: my info (fwiw) comes from Mike Lucas who is the Starlight guru and (I believe ) the ex production manager for Starlight. Anyway, it doesnt matter because there 's no doubt that the six faulty boats were year 2000 or thereabouts and have been dealt with.
Two, apparently, had the outer hull stripped off and replaced! Mindbending thought. I did indeed speak to one of the owners of the duff 6 and he seemed very pleased with the results of everyones efforts to repair his boat.
Two, apparently, had the outer hull stripped off and replaced! Mindbending thought. I did indeed speak to one of the owners of the duff 6 and he seemed very pleased with the results of everyones efforts to repair his boat.
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
My info was from the guy who was in-house at Bowman at the time, and is now a surveyor.
Fight?
Fight?
sailorman
Well-Known Member
[Two, apparently, had the outer hull stripped off and replaced! Mindbending thought. I did indeed speak to one of the owners of the duff 6 and he seemed very pleased with the results of everyones efforts to repair his boat. ]
one was done in Ipswich @ a cost reported to be £40k. hull outer skin removed & replaced
Sans Bateau
Well-Known Member
Might I suggest that, as it appears, there are several versions of the course of events. Each version probably protecting some whilst shifting the blame to others. What is clear is that there were only a very small number of boats, all of which it seems are now repaired.
bobm
Well-Known Member
I actually own one of the 6 boats being speculated about. Most of what is written is mostly true however some more detail for clarification.
There were 8 boats that had hulls sub-contracted to the builders in Cornwall by Bowman. 6 of those had replacement hulls, 5 built by Rampart (Bowman) and the other in Ipswich as previously stated. The cost of new hulls and associated works were appox £40k per boat and the cost was down to the OWNERS not Bowman! I have the receipts to prove it! The other 2 boats were less impacted bt I am not sure what the corrective measures were.
All the re-builds have revised specification agreed between the supervising surveyor, the designer, the boatyard and CE Proof in Southampton. The revised spec generally increased the weight of GRP in several sections particulary in the aft parts. All in all the re-built boats have superior hulls to the originals and the standard of workmanship by Rampart/Bowman was excellent.
I bought the boat subsequent to the re-builds after referencing many sources including another owner who aslo bought follwing the re-builds.
Hope this adds some clarity.
There were 8 boats that had hulls sub-contracted to the builders in Cornwall by Bowman. 6 of those had replacement hulls, 5 built by Rampart (Bowman) and the other in Ipswich as previously stated. The cost of new hulls and associated works were appox £40k per boat and the cost was down to the OWNERS not Bowman! I have the receipts to prove it! The other 2 boats were less impacted bt I am not sure what the corrective measures were.
All the re-builds have revised specification agreed between the supervising surveyor, the designer, the boatyard and CE Proof in Southampton. The revised spec generally increased the weight of GRP in several sections particulary in the aft parts. All in all the re-built boats have superior hulls to the originals and the standard of workmanship by Rampart/Bowman was excellent.
I bought the boat subsequent to the re-builds after referencing many sources including another owner who aslo bought follwing the re-builds.
Hope this adds some clarity.
