Standing rigging failures.

BurnitBlue

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I fail to follow that description, and in particular how you get a strong grip on both sides of the shell of the mast without, as you say, crushing it. What seems to be needed is the sort of fitting used in domestic situations to grip dry-wall surfaces over a wide area.
The stainless steel "pipe" over the stud will absorb the crushing forces. In other words the nuts on the stud will be seperated by the pipe. Would need precise measurement to enable the nuts to grip both the pipe аnd the mast wall. Perhaps impossible.
 
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srm

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I just watched the "Sailing Fair Isle" videos on rigging. Their rigger gave coherent reasons against using a sealant in the Stalock mechanical terminals. An Australian friend was recently given the same advice "down under".

I used Stalock and Norseman terminals on my first re-rig in the early 80's. At that time the manufacturer's instructions included adding a blob of sealant in the body after final inspection so that it was forced into the wires and out the end with the final tightening. I think Stalock subsequently dropped this from their instructions. My last re-rig was in 2009 and I think the sealant was still in the instructions then. Certainly the riggers in Plymouth (when I had to buy some toggles) recommended, and said they used, a medium strength adhesive sealant,

I am unlikely to re-rig another boat, but if I did then I would do so without sealant. I have not had any problems with my rigs, but have experience of corrosion in high quality stainless steel on oceanographic instruments underwater where part was exposed to aerated water and part was sealed. I also saw the same effect in stainless steel rudder heel fittings where the corrosion occurred on the inner surface against the skeg while the outer face retained its polish.
 

mjcoon

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The stainless steel "pipe" over the stud will absorb the crushing forces. In other words the nuts on the stud will be seperated by the pipe. Would need precise measurement to enable the nuts to grip both the pipe аnd the mast wall. Perhaps impossible.
I was afraid that was what you meant! As you say, impossible. Because the mast section is not infinitely incompressible, so the "pipe" will just rattle about. If you really want a challenge, make the "pipe" of a diameter too great to go through the drilled hole and feed it into the mast from one end or other and manoeuvre it into position to have the stud threaded through it...
 

Zing

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This afternoon off Falmouth Harbour, Antigua. Hardly a breath of windView attachment 172787
What a shame. I met the owner. He’s a nice family guy, cruising in a race cat as his first boat and doing well with so it seemed until now. It’s an all carbon Outremer 5X, 8 years old, severely lightened and power added compared to standard. He is a rank beginner, so it’s possible a rookie mistake was made, but highly strung boats do tend to break more than others. I’d like to know why it failed.
 

srm

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Strange priorities, activate EPIRB before checking hull for damage, then find no hull damage. Someone filming rather than working on salvaging rig and protecting hull. More interested in talking to the camera and making a video than looking after the boat and themselves.
Stopped watching just after 6 minutes having skipped the intro waffle.
 

Sea Change

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Strange priorities, activate EPIRB before checking hull for damage, then find no hull damage. Someone filming rather than working on salvaging rig and protecting hull. More interested in talking to the camera and making a video than looking after the boat and themselves.
Stopped watching just after 6 minutes having skipped the intro waffle.
I think it was maybe a head mounted camera, I'm sure I saw both hands in shot at one point. So other than narrating, not really detracting from his ability to work.

But yes I skipped most of it too, in the intro they were literally talking sh*t. They were very fortunate that it happened in calm conditions and daylight. I would have liked to have understood why they couldn't keep the rig onboard, it looked possible to me.
He talked about sawing through the rigging and how hard that was, I wonder if they tried pulling the pins instead?

I didn't watch the whole thing so I don't know if there was any kind of explanation about why it happened.
 

geem

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What a shame. I met the owner. He’s a nice family guy, cruising in a race cat as his first boat and doing well with so it seemed until now. It’s an all carbon Outremer 5X, 8 years old, severely lightened and power added compared to standard. He is a rank beginner, so it’s possible a rookie mistake was made, but highly strung boats do tend to break more than others. I’d like to know why it failed.
Apparently an aramid stay parted just after they crossed thr finish line of the RORC Caribbean 600
 

srm

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I saw a big modern French mass production boat with the mast still on the boat supported by the lower shrouds, but folded in three sections, more or less at the spreaders, with the top near deck level. The entire ss chain plate assembly for inner and cap shrouds had pulled right out of the boat through the deck. The owners did admit to having raced the boat hard.
 

Chiara’s slave

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Our chainplates are 12mm bar. The rig is single spreaders so we have 11 terminals less than the double spreader equivalent rig as fitted to our friends sisters ship. Wires only seem to ever fail at terminals. We have two forestay with furlers plus a babystay. Also running back stays. Although we have a robust set up, it's very hard to get away from single point of failure. The rig would be so heavy it would not be viable
I’ve seen a few failures in my time, and as you say, it’s always at a terminal. A flex point? Corrosion? Does the swaging process cause a weakness? Maybe not that, as stay loks fail in the same way.
 

geem

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I’ve seen a few failures in my time, and as you say, it’s always at a terminal. A flex point? Corrosion? Does the swaging process cause a weakness? Maybe not that, as stay loks fail in the same way.
I have never seen a stalok fail in the terminal. I have had a hydraulic swage terminals crack.
 

Chiara’s slave

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I have never seen a stalok fail in the terminal. I have had a hydraulic swage terminals crack.
I have an irrational fear of sta loks, yet also never seen the actual terminal fail. What can I say, it’s irrational. We have one on our boat, the upper forestay. If I think about it I have an involuntary internal flutter when I put the mainsheet on a winch.
 

geem

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I have an irrational fear of sta loks, yet also never seen the actual terminal fail. What can I say, it’s irrational. We have one on our boat, the upper forestay. If I think about it I have an involuntary internal flutter when I put the mainsheet on a winch.
I love them. I don't have to worry if the hydraulic swage machine is out of calibration, or the machine operatives has done it wrong so runs it through the machine for a second time. I don't have to worry about cracked swages.
I rigged my last boat with Staloks and now the current boat. It cost more but they are reusable with just the cone to replace. It's easy to check if you have done it right by just undoing the fitting and checking the strands are all aligned
 

Sea Change

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Has anybody on here used Petersen Hi-Mod fittings? Supposed to be at least as good as Sta-Lok and you don't even have a cone to replace.
(I've used Norseman and Sta-Lok myself)
 

Chiara’s slave

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I love them. I don't have to worry if the hydraulic swage machine is out of calibration, or the machine operatives has done it wrong so runs it through the machine for a second time. I don't have to worry about cracked swages.
I rigged my last boat with Staloks and now the current boat. It cost more but they are reusable with just the cone to replace. It's easy to check if you have done it right by just undoing the fitting and checking the strands are all aligned
When I’ve made as many terminations as ypu, maybe I’ll love them too. That was my first.
 

geem

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When I’ve made as many terminations as ypu, maybe I’ll love them too. That was my first.
We have 24 staloks for our 2 masts. Still got a pair of hydraulic wages on the top of both foestays. One of those will go when I replace the inner forestay later this year with 10mm compact strand wire
 

BurnitBlue

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I am beginning to wonder who makes the decision about mast and rigging scantlings. Mast builder or marine architect. I was chatting with the owner of a steel Joshua cruising yacht. He was complaining that his twin forestay setup always sagged even when only one sail was set. I noticed he only had one backstay. So winding in tension on the forestays doubled the tension on his single backstay. This meant that owner mods had been added to the "design" team. Now three seperate inputs with different targets.

Consider that most standing rigging is mostly single dimension (8mm on my Snowgoose) I wander why the forestay which sometimes are subject to a flögging sail seem to fail less rhan the lowers. Any idea. Why did you decide to upgrade to 10 mm?
 
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