HissyFit
Well-Known Member
On your head be it. ?
Standing rigging 20 years old
- Thread starter Tamar
- Start date
HissyFit
Well-Known Member
That last sentence cuts both ways, so if you truly want the boat don't let it stand in your way. If it was indicative of other issues then I'd be running away, but you seem to like it in all other respects.
RJJ
Well-Known Member
I personally wouldn't trust 20yr old rigging from a used boat. I am not expert or qualified but here's my belief. It's less the age than how it's been used.
If it's been greased on each adjustment, inspected, and used at the correct tension then a long life may be expected. If it's been tensioned without lubricant (depending on materials), or used at too loose a tension, then the risk of failure is greater. I understand from a rigger that too loose is a more prevalent error, and associated with more failures, than too tight.
If it's ever been taped incorrectly such that stagnant salt water is trapped in a stainless steel component (see first edition of British Steel Challenge) then it's high risk. And all of the above errors are hard to inspect for.
So I personally would expect this rigging would need changing. I wouldn't even bother to inspect it. If it was my own rigging, from new, I might have different views because I'd know its history.
Then it's down to the bargaining. If you don't think the price reflects the entirety of the state of the yacht and equipment, by all means politely say so and make your offer accordingly. If the seller disagrees, he may reject it. Either or both of you then compromises, or there's no deal. If no deal, there's only disadvantage in being grumpy about it. He doesn't owe you a boat, you don't owe him a sale.
If it's been greased on each adjustment, inspected, and used at the correct tension then a long life may be expected. If it's been tensioned without lubricant (depending on materials), or used at too loose a tension, then the risk of failure is greater. I understand from a rigger that too loose is a more prevalent error, and associated with more failures, than too tight.
If it's ever been taped incorrectly such that stagnant salt water is trapped in a stainless steel component (see first edition of British Steel Challenge) then it's high risk. And all of the above errors are hard to inspect for.
So I personally would expect this rigging would need changing. I wouldn't even bother to inspect it. If it was my own rigging, from new, I might have different views because I'd know its history.
Then it's down to the bargaining. If you don't think the price reflects the entirety of the state of the yacht and equipment, by all means politely say so and make your offer accordingly. If the seller disagrees, he may reject it. Either or both of you then compromises, or there's no deal. If no deal, there's only disadvantage in being grumpy about it. He doesn't owe you a boat, you don't owe him a sale.
Tamar
Well-Known Member
Thanks that's a great post.
I always remember a forestay snapping on a yacht I was crewman on a long time ago. The Skipper said if that wire was galvanized instead of stainless we could see it failing because it would rust. Stainless gives little warning apparently.
It's a 30 ft boat and has been sailed extensively. So I would be happier in any blow if I knew the rigging was sound.
I want to pay a fair price. Also for my own piece of mind I will get a survey, as it's hasn't been surveyed for 20 years.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
My, such a caring person you are.
lynallbel
Well-Known Member
[163233]
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Get a rigger to do a formal rig report, your surveyor will be able to suggest an appropriately qualified rigger.
Last one I had was about 100 quid.
Last one I had was about 100 quid.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
Several decades ago I used to sail on an old wooden boat that had galvanised standing rigging and the owner said it was because you could tell if it was past its best before date by looking at it. Is that true and if so why dont we use galvanised rigging?
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
Because you've "never been asked", doesn't mean your insurance company will honour any claim.
Tamar
Well-Known Member
I fully intend to if I get the boat
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
That's probably because they are encased in 'tar' & protected from the elements.
Those underneath roadways & subjected to roadsalt, do corrode & get replaced.
michael_w
Well-Known Member
Do the sums. The cost of replacing the entire rig, assuming you have all your biggest sails up and are left with nothing but the chainplates, will come close to the full value of the boat. Beware of insurer's averaging on any claim.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I fail to see why a buyer needs to be caring. Many of us are so habituated by our daily needs to be ethical and useful social beings that when it comes to situations such as when we are buying we are inclined to give our own interests less attention than they deserve. Poignard's advice was for the buyer to look after himself. There was no suggestion that the buyer should behave unreasonably, and it seems to me like good, and caring, advice.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Don't be silly.
The man is thinking of buying something from someone who wants to sell.
Whilst I would not suggest being rude, or needlessly wasting the seller's time, he must put his own interest first.
He has to live with the consequences of any bad deal.
Sharky34
Well-Known Member
Really?
Catalina36
N/A
Each has their own opinons on wire rigging. These days I'm not of the school that finds it necessary to replace wire at a set age because it can "fail without warning". My previous boat was 6 years old when I bought it, 16 when I sold it, no change to the rigging, the buyer's surveyor didn't remark upon it and the insurance company never queried it.
The current boat was 10 when I bought it, the surveyor made no mention of replacing it but I did anyway when it was 12, chiefly because of all these legends about wire failure - not that in 50 years I've ever known anyone who has had one. That was 13 years ago. I've no intention of replacing again, it's not as if I battle round the Horn every other week. I oversized it anyway and I've not the slightest concern that it's at risk. If I see a broken strand poking out of a swage I'll know it's time. It isn't going to shed all 19 in one go.
I'm sure there's a reason that people don't use Dyneema for standing rigging if they have little faith in stainless. My backstay tensioner is a cascade using dyneema and it's been there over ten years with no sign of degradation.
The current boat was 10 when I bought it, the surveyor made no mention of replacing it but I did anyway when it was 12, chiefly because of all these legends about wire failure - not that in 50 years I've ever known anyone who has had one. That was 13 years ago. I've no intention of replacing again, it's not as if I battle round the Horn every other week. I oversized it anyway and I've not the slightest concern that it's at risk. If I see a broken strand poking out of a swage I'll know it's time. It isn't going to shed all 19 in one go.
I'm sure there's a reason that people don't use Dyneema for standing rigging if they have little faith in stainless. My backstay tensioner is a cascade using dyneema and it's been there over ten years with no sign of degradation.
neil_s
Well-Known Member
The age of rigging has been overtaken by the insurance companies and we can't do much about that, but the age of a sail is not measured in years - it's measured in days of Force 6 and exposure to UV. If they look good then they are good. I retired my mainsail last year - made by a well respected sailmaker in 1977.
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
I renewed my standing rigging in 2018, 13 yrs after I bought it. On purchase the mast was removed for repair to a crosstree, inspected at the same time by the rigger who did the repair and pronounced ok. Insurance co wanted survey which said to renew rigging. Three stainless turnbuckles were no good so all replaced with StaLok turnbuckles. Also found a problem with the mast baby stay fitting. Now all new and should last me out!
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Because it doesn't look nice !! Have you ever been on an old boat with tallowed rigging ? Many older boats with galv rigging had tallow applied to the rigging to protect it.
Galvanised wire is actually preferred for any item that is submerged or subject to frequent submersion such as keel lifting cables .. rudder lifts etc. PRECISELY because condition can be checked visually.
Many people swap galv wire on lifting keels for stainless - ignoring the fact that one day all will look tickety boo - till twang ... down goes the keel and nothing you can do about it.
Tamar
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Refueler, post: 7273208, member: 321
Many people swap galv wire on lifting keels for stainless - ignoring the fact that one day all will look tickety boo - till twang ... down goes the keel and nothing you can do about it.
[/QUOTE]
With respect...But surely you are condradicting your earlier posts, #16 -17.
Many people swap galv wire on lifting keels for stainless - ignoring the fact that one day all will look tickety boo - till twang ... down goes the keel and nothing you can do about it.
[/QUOTE]
With respect...But surely you are condradicting your earlier posts, #16 -17.
