Resolution
Well-Known Member
I've seen them attached on top, on one side but not below. Anyway, it's a tough choice which valuable part of your anatomy you wish to put at risk!
Stackpack: I'm not at all convinced.
- Thread starter NealB
- Start date
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I had a chuckle reading of all the problems people seem to have dealing with battened mainsails - fighting b battens, sails that wont drop cleanly, nor flake well, what to do with many metres of reefing lines etc. I am actually a great fan of stack packs having had on of the first ones that Kemp Sails produced.
First thing to remember is that there is no such thing as a "standard" stackpack nor a one size fits all layjack arrangement so it makes sense to identify what problems you want to solve and have your gear made to deal with this. Very clear from the suggestions made by those who have success that the devil is in the detail both of the design and how you use it. Equally clear from some who are unconvinced that some of the negatives are a product of poor design or bad technique, or a mixture of both.
Anyway that is all in the past for me. Have just come back from a 3 day trip with good sailing winds all the time. Never left the cockpit after putting the fenders away. Set sails on the go with no effort, reduced mainsail a bit for a short period when the wind rose to 20 knots and flew the cruising chute twice. All of this with minimum effort and the help of a good autopilot. Most striking in relation to this thread is "dropping" the main. Compared with all the antics described here, all it takes for me is to head into the wind with it just on the starboard bow, let out the mainsheet, lift the outhaul clutch, pull the furling line and in less than a minute 30sqm of main is put away neatly with no dram, no sticking slides, no sail hanging off the boom, no bits of shock cord to play with, no struggle with a cover, flaking sail tucking away reefing lines, doing up zips etc.
First thing to remember is that there is no such thing as a "standard" stackpack nor a one size fits all layjack arrangement so it makes sense to identify what problems you want to solve and have your gear made to deal with this. Very clear from the suggestions made by those who have success that the devil is in the detail both of the design and how you use it. Equally clear from some who are unconvinced that some of the negatives are a product of poor design or bad technique, or a mixture of both.
Anyway that is all in the past for me. Have just come back from a 3 day trip with good sailing winds all the time. Never left the cockpit after putting the fenders away. Set sails on the go with no effort, reduced mainsail a bit for a short period when the wind rose to 20 knots and flew the cruising chute twice. All of this with minimum effort and the help of a good autopilot. Most striking in relation to this thread is "dropping" the main. Compared with all the antics described here, all it takes for me is to head into the wind with it just on the starboard bow, let out the mainsheet, lift the outhaul clutch, pull the furling line and in less than a minute 30sqm of main is put away neatly with no dram, no sticking slides, no sail hanging off the boom, no bits of shock cord to play with, no struggle with a cover, flaking sail tucking away reefing lines, doing up zips etc.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling most of the few here who don't like 'em, are put off either by unhappy experiences with imperfect kit, or just by the appearance...
...but I envy the people who've simply never needed them. :encouragement:
You can make your own lazyjacks.
I roughly knotted mine together five years ago, and haven't needed to make it permanent yet. It works perfectly as it is, and doubles as a topping lift.
My mainsail track opens ten inches above the gooseneck, so the sail goes AWOL as it drops. That and the unsupported boom made lowering the 100sq ft mainsail horrific, singlehanded in a breeze, till I fitted lazyjacks. Now I can row, moor, picnic or proceed under genoa alone, while the mainsail sits quietly.
But I haven't seen a lot of other dinghies with them.
...but I envy the people who've simply never needed them. :encouragement:
You can make your own lazyjacks.
I roughly knotted mine together five years ago, and haven't needed to make it permanent yet. It works perfectly as it is, and doubles as a topping lift.
My mainsail track opens ten inches above the gooseneck, so the sail goes AWOL as it drops. That and the unsupported boom made lowering the 100sq ft mainsail horrific, singlehanded in a breeze, till I fitted lazyjacks. Now I can row, moor, picnic or proceed under genoa alone, while the mainsail sits quietly.
But I haven't seen a lot of other dinghies with them.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Quick straw pole today along one pontoon in the club. Of the boats with sail covers on, 30 with stackpacks, 17 with conventional over the boom covers.
Those with covers fall into 3 main categories - old(er) boats, boats under 24' and boats predominately used for club racing. Stackpacks inevitably dominate in the middle of the road cruising boats. Only two in mast - mine and a Southerly 115.
Those with covers fall into 3 main categories - old(er) boats, boats under 24' and boats predominately used for club racing. Stackpacks inevitably dominate in the middle of the road cruising boats. Only two in mast - mine and a Southerly 115.
Seajet
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I'm with you and Neal B too.
Even lazyjacks are a pain on my 22' boat - I tried them, for about 30 minutes adjusting and playing and that was enough - then I am well used to my boat.
I've crewed on a few boats with stackpacks - inc a Centaur so at the 26' threshold I also agree with -and found them a right pain, lovely to be able to zip the sail away but getting to that point was not fun.
I also worry about the high - in both ways - windage of stackpacks if caught in severe conditions.
On a big boat, maybe, but anything 26-28' or less I can't help thinking they're a fashion accessory.
alant
Well-Known Member
Must be set up incorrectly then.
If they are of no use when hoisting & don't work when lowering, why do you have them at all?
Seajet
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alant, rather than assume and make a negative comment, you might for once read what is said and keep your self bailer shut; Jumbleduck is a highly experienced sailor on a good boat in unforgiving seas and areas and knows what he is doing; to some extent so am I and I'm sure Neal B is so ' must be incorrectly set up then ' from you does not seem a voice from the gods 
alant
Well-Known Member
alant, rather than assume and make a negative comment, you might for once read what is said and keep your self bailer shut; Jumbleduck is a highly experienced sailor on a good boat in unforgiving seas and areas and knows what he is doing; to some extent so am I and I'm sure Neal B is so ' must be incorrectly set up then ' from you does not seem a voice from the gods
Seajet, get back on your 22' dinghy & stop making silly personal comments.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Stackpack & lazyjacks work fine for me. Very occasionally a batten end gets caught on the way up if I'm not paying attention, but it takes no time to free it. Dropping needs almost no effort, it flakes itself apart from one point, the same place every time, where I have to go on deck & flick the leech into place.
The main advantage for me is it controls a heavy sail when I'm on my own with little physical effort. Although only a 30' boat my main is nearly 45 square metres & with 9 full battens & 11 recirculating ball cars it is flipping heavy despite being a carbon sail. I can get the sail on & off my boat by myself - but only just - because of its size & weight.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
When I've used such a device, its always been a length of line with an elastic end to stretch and clip on under the boom and then sail-ties tied onto the line NOT elastic things that attacks either your goolies or your eyes if inadvertently let go.
Usually referred to as 'the washing line' on boats that I've used them on.
Seajet
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Angus,
but with your boat doesn't the slight apparent wind angle ( speed luffing ) - I presume with a hopefully good autopilot - help get the main down into it, until at at least she falls off downwind ? Not taking pee, genuine.
A
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I roll away the headsail first, start the engine, point the boat into the wind, & with a boat speed of about 2 knots so that the autopilot can steer drop the mainsail. I expect a purist might tut that I use the engine but it's simple & works, & allows me to tame a big flap of sailcloth on my own with minimum flap.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised nobody has made a batten which can sit flush with the leech, and still be accessible when necessary.
P'raps they just need to be an inch or so shorter. If they didn't stick out, they wouldn't snag the lazyjacks.
P'raps they just need to be an inch or so shorter. If they didn't stick out, they wouldn't snag the lazyjacks.
Seajet
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Dan,
I'm guessing you either mean either a radical slight roach weirdo design, or a more sensible job with about 60 harken blocks with battens and lines 20' out behind making that ' beach walker ' job look a good idea viable tender ?
I'm guessing you either mean either a radical slight roach weirdo design, or a more sensible job with about 60 harken blocks with battens and lines 20' out behind making that ' beach walker ' job look a good idea viable tender ?
Seajet
...
Works for me Angus, my mentor Charlie Solley had been through the Murmansk convoys, he always said " the best sailor is the laziest " - ie he had worked it all out beforehand so no great muscle work or drama involved at the destination.
alant
Well-Known Member
Seajet, please explain why, if you have a set up with the correct sized/positioned lazyjacks, are they fouling any battens when dropping sail?
PS, are you on here looking for sympathy, or to add some sage advice?
PPS, I was not among them, because I had been beached for retaliating against insults made against me, noticing that those making the flagrant nasty remarks got off scot free. Calling me a "w....r" does little for your illustrious reputation.
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charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Having tried both, I wouldn't be without the boom-bag for single-handed sailing, especially with a fully battened main.
Occasional problems with batten-end fouling, but only when lifting on the first two batten-ends when trying to lift offwind.
All things to all people!!
Mind you, I've only sailed European waters, about 41, 000 nm in this boat during the last 28 years, so my experience is not exhaustive.
Occasional problems with batten-end fouling, but only when lifting on the first two batten-ends when trying to lift offwind.
All things to all people!!
Mind you, I've only sailed European waters, about 41, 000 nm in this boat during the last 28 years, so my experience is not exhaustive.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Andy, you have me baffled, there. I'm guessing the "slight roach" would be the cutaway-style sail which in-mast furlers often require...
...but all those Harken blocks and lines? I'm guessing that yacht mainsail battens must be complicated affairs adjustable from the deck, and it's the adjustment-part that sticks out behind the leech?
Although I crewed a Victoria 34 lately, and I didn't notice any batten-tackles.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I've no idea what he's on about either. Never seen line adjustable battens. You set the tension with the batten prodder, once, & that's it. The end of the battens on mine protrude by about 1cm, enough for the lower 2 to catch on a lazyjacks line if inattentive when hoisting, but that's all. There's nothing 20' out behind.
Seajet
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I do not require sage advice from you about boat handling, though nasty remarks are much more your line so don't act indignant if I and others retaliate.
On a boat in a harbour or restricted channel lazyjacks may well require one to point to wind rather too more accurately than narrow space allows, let alone getting other passing boats ( often with novice crews who cannot be expected to recognise what one is trying to do ), current and wind to comply - and my part of the harbour is very quiet compared to places like Itchenor where unless one had handed the main well beforehand it would be asking to end up on next days' youtube.
Being an ex racing dinghy type ( and about to do it again in another Osprey ) I like like fiddling with bits of line and rigging, and tried various positions for lazyjacks - they were far too much faddle on my boat, but as I say I'm used to her, this is our 40th season.
As I also said lazyjacks and stackpacks MAY be useful on liveaboard blue water boats but I would be worried about the windage up high in severe conditions.
That's the simple version for you.