Stackpack: I'm not at all convinced.

To me, the whole point of the stackpak/LJack system is to avoid having to leave the cockpit.

Sailing a small twin-keeler, it doesn't take big waves from the wrong direction to set the boat a-rockin' and a-rollin. The Solent chop is notorious, but it's OK, because you know it's there and you're prepared, but the wake from a container ship or a big mobo can arrive without warning, several minutes after the vessel's gone by, and there the ones that are likely to get you when you're busy putting a flappy mainsail to bed.

Yes, I know I should be clipped on - I am, even in seas so calm, I feel ridiculous, but having a system that gets the sail down under control without leaving the cockpit is easier for me and a lot less stressful for the Admiral, who is convinced I'm going over the side if I have to go to the mast.
 
As a founder-member of the OGSA - Old Gits Sailing Association, I believe that lazyjacks are a godsend on a cruising yacht but cannot accept stackpacks. My sail goes up and down quite happily from the lazyjacks and at no time do I need to leave the cockpit, though I usually put a tie round the aft end of the sail after dropping to stop it flopping too much, though some alteration to the jacks could obviate this.

I agree with those who enjoy the ritual of putting the cover on and off. It allows one to contemplate the universe at leisure while attending to the sail, frapping the halyards and taking redundant lines out to the side while the orlop crew attend to the mess inside.
 
Some great replies here: thank you to all.

I'm still not convinced, and will probably revert back to the old system tomorrow.

Ps I like the sound of johnalison's OGSA, though Joscelyn thinks a GOGSA might be more appropriate for me (and I don't think the first 'G' is for 'gorgeous').
 
NealB said:
I'm still not convinced, and will probably revert back to the old system tomorrow.
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A move I would heartedly support.

Any sail cover that has the zip at the top to let the water in can only be the idea of a sailmaker who profits from the festering green mess that's often found being 'protected' inside.
 
Stack pack may not be necessary on a small boat with relatively small mainsail size. Overkill below 25 feet perhaps, useful under 30 feet, in my view near essential over 35 feet (unless go to furling boom or mast).
Certainly we have treated a stack package as essential and fitted as first addition to last two boats (both in 35-40 foot category).
Set up properly a stack pack should only require a bit of care when hoisting. And should be brilliant when dropping, avoiding any sail falling off the boom. We have quite often simply cast off the main halyard in the cockpit and let tomato of the sail free fall to depower in a squall and/or when need to slow down for tricky rock passages.
On previous boat we eased the lazyjack ropes slightly when sailing, with adjuster led back to cockpit, but never moved from position. Current boat have been able to leave permanently set - and even tied off permanently at spreaders to reduce tapping noises on anchor.
Each to their own, but for us sailing short handed the stack pack is as essential as an autopilot, and no more trouble to use
 
NealB said:
Three main reasons:

- personally, I don't like the look of stackpacks, but recognise this is a subjective, not rational, opinion

- it makes pulling the sail up trickier than it needs to be (battens invariably get hooked under the lazy jacks)

- the sail doesn't drop as quickly when the halyard is let go
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I'm with you. As I have written before, I think stackpacks are great on large boats, menaces on small boats and cross over more-or-less exactly at 26', which is my boat's length.

I bought a new mainsail last year and ditched the stackpack at the same time. The new sail is an awkward brute, having the flexibility of corrugated iron, but I have given up trying to flake it down and now just lash it beside/under the boom with a millipede, which takes much less time than I used to spend swearing at the stackpack. I'll do a harbour stow when I leave the boat, but for now stackpacklessness is a blessed release.
 
Motor_Sailor said:
A move I would heartedly support.

Any sail cover that has the zip at the top to let the water in can only be the idea of a sailmaker who profits from the festering green mess that's often found being 'protected' inside.
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This illustrates perfectly that not all stack packs are equal. There is a lot involved in the design to make them suit the boat and the way you use them than meets the eye. A properly designed and made closure does not let water in and the sail is well protected. But of course to achieve this requires more work and cost. Some people just buy the cheapest they can and pay for the poor design and workmanship over the years.
 
Tranona said:
This illustrates perfectly that not all stack packs are equal. There is a lot involved in the design to make them suit the boat and the way you use them than meets the eye. A properly designed and made closure does not let water in and the sail is well protected. But of course to achieve this requires more work and cost. Some people just buy the cheapest they can and pay for the poor design and workmanship over the years.
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I agree with you 100%! One very common mistake is to have the top zipper sitting right at the bottom of the valley that usually forms between the two sides at the top between the two rods that prevent the fabric from sagging between the guide lines. Easily solved with some thought and imagination, even though I admit that my time is not costed because both the 'systems' that I have built for my boats were self-designed and made in my workshop.
 
I'm with the OP, took it all off and happy without lazy jacks and/or stack pack. The amount of boats I get on where raising the main is a complete PITA and only possible when at 0 degrees to the breeze and even then a bit of up, down, up again to stop sail battens getting caught in the lazy jacks. A solution causing as many problems as it cures.

I know you can have a system where the lazy jacks are stowed along the boom for raising and lowering, nobody I've been out with seems to be bothered about doing this and accepts the faffing about as normal.

Plus I'm a bit of a tart and don't like the look of stack packs when sailing.

Above comments based on 36ft with reasonable sized mainsail, if I was in the market for something bigger say the 50ft plus size, a 'park avenue boom' with some string to guide the sail in would be nice though...!
 
I've been using a stack pack I made for about five years now: before that we had one made by a Solent canvas maker (CMJ?) which had worn out, hence the replacement. The lazyjacks go to the upper spreaders, making the gap between them about a metre or so: that really solves the batten snagging problem provided you're more or less into the wind.
The spread between the lazyjacks also eliminates the 'valley' on the top of the pack and a pronounced tapper towards the stern means that rain water drains off rather than entering the zip. That said, we remove the sail during the winter layup so water ingress and damp isn't too much of a problem for us.
As to sail handling, I wouldn't be without our current arrangement. I get why people don't like the look of them and I understand that others are impatient in trying to resolve the handling and snagging problems but for us they work.
My Hurley 18, on the other hand, doesn't have lazyjacks or a stack pack: the roller reefing boom stops that in its tracks. However, it is a pain in the arras dropping the sail single handed as it just goes everywhere: yes, it's light enough to manhandle but it could be so much easier. If I have a few quid to spare, I'll probably get the sailmaker to put some reefing points in a fit a set of lazyjacks: won't bother with a stack pack, just not worth time spent making one.
 
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Rigged mine on a 41 footer with large fb main to have lazyjacks that could be pulled forward and hooked under rams horns clear for hoisting and sail stowage, then had a regular style sail cove. I hated mildew and dirt streaks from using a zipped stakpack.and much preferred a loose fitted sail cover, easily rolled along the boom to take off and replace. pre/apres sail. I did often raise the sail with lazyjacks up, with great care direct into wind. dropping was always with them up and a doddle but we had full roller bearing cars on mast track., not slugs or cheap make dos.

Sd old git now however has no sail to put away:(
 
(from the perspective of a 31' AWB owner):
Current boat has stackpack and lazyjacks. My previous (ancient) experience was with a similar size boat that had neither.

I started hoisting with the LJ's tight , which caused frequent batten-jams, then pulled the LJ's (which are secured to the mast - having read this thread I am definitely going to try moving them to the spreaders) forward which solves that problem, but is a bit of a faff, and have now gone back to hoisting with them tight again, with more success than originally.
The difference seems to be that I gave the track and plastic slider a good old dose of dry silicone spray at the beginning of the season and it now goes up much faster, so the battens have less time to catch the LJ's. Dropping into the stack-pack is a doddle, apart from the reefing lines becoming lynch- lines in the cockpit until you tidy them up. One sail tie round halyard and stack pack holds it all in place until securely alongside.

Overall, I like them. They do need to be adjusted correctly when sailing, though, to avoid looking sloppy, and if you ever need to secure the boom to the deck (storm conditions?) the LJ's would need to be completely loose.

I have seen speculation that a stack pack could actually improve the aerodynamic performance of the mainsail, acting as a barrier to stop the airflow across the mainsail "falling off" the boom (like winglets on a plane or keel, or the Park Avenue booms of old) but I suspect that most stackpacks are not installed for aerodynamic benefit .

My recollection of the separate sail cover is different to Robin's. I recall it always being a bit of a faff, and my stackpack doesn't mark the sail.
However, both of these perspectives could be due to the specific covers experienced, not the general principles.
 
Last boat had no Lazy Jacks or stack pack - total pain in the derriere to drop the sail.

New boat has Lazy Jacks and a stack pack - total joy to drop the sail.

I've even had the stack pack modded so that it is even better. I can't think what there is not to like about it.
 
john_morris_uk said:
If it was me that replied then I hope I didn't bite your head off.

I will repeat what I may have said before: we have lazyjacks fitted to our 39' centre cockpit boat and so long as we are careful not to snag a batten when we are hoisting the mainsail (its only the lower two battens that can possible snag so it's no great hardship) then we have had nothing by fantastic service from them. The stack pack doesn't flap around and if you flake the main halyard out in the cockpit and release the clutch, the mainsail (99 times out of 100) stows itself completely without any fuss whatsoever. We have to tuck the reefing pennants in to the bag, but that's no hardship at all as the mainsail drops down in one huge rush and is gathered into the stack pack. We've got it set up so that we never have to adjust the lazyjacks whether hoisting, setting, reefing or dropping the sail.

If they didn't work so brilliantly, I can imagine getting annoyed with them, but they make setting and stowing the main extremely easy on our boat.
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Amen to that! Wouldn’t want to be without ours. With batten cars the whole main just drops beautifully into the stackpack and pretty much flakes itself. Yes, we head directly into wind when raising, but this is no hardship.
 
Sandy said:
Changes in the size, direction of zip - I now zip from the mast along the boom rather than from the end of the boom to the mast, better access for reefing lines.
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That's my preferred direction, too. It means joining and starting the zip at the mast, where I have a secure footing and nothing moves much. rather than balanced on a cockpit seat while the booms trying to escape the mainsheet as the boat rocks in someone's wake. I also added a length of plaited thin line so I can drag the zip past the sprayhood more easily.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I'm with you. As I have written before, I think stackpacks are great on large boats, menaces on small boats and cross over more-or-less exactly at 26', which is my boat's length.

I bought a new mainsail last year and ditched the stackpack at the same time. The new sail is an awkward brute, having the flexibility of corrugated iron, but I have given up trying to flake it down and now just lash it beside/under the boom with a millipede, which takes much less time than I used to spend swearing at the stackpack. I'll do a harbour stow when I leave the boat, but for now stackpacklessness is a blessed release.
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“Millipede”?
 
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