Stackpack: I'm not at all convinced.

N

NealB

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 Feb 2006
Messages
7,674
Location
Burnham on Crouch
Visit site
I've sailed a wide variety of boats, since the early 1960's.

A year ago, we bought our current boat, complete with an absolutely brand new, unused, stackpack type lazy jack set up.

After giving it what I think is a very fair trial, I'm now on the point of taking it off, and reverting to the old fashioned sail cover (and no lazy jacks).

Why?

Three main reasons:

- personally, I don't like the look of stackpacks, but recognise this is a subjective, not rational, opinion

- it makes pulling the sail up trickier than it needs to be (battens invariably get hooked under the lazy jacks)

- the sail doesn't drop as quickly when the halyard is let go

I find all those 3 points really annoying, yet stackpacks are now almost ubiquitous, so I'm obviously either an old git too set in my ways, or I'm doing something wrong (or both).

I see only one slight advantage: the sail doesn't drop on the deck, obscuring the helmsperson's view. However, on my boat (35 foot bermudan sloop), it takes so little time to do a roughish sea stow, that it doesn't anywhere make up for the disadvantages.

Would any of the esteemed members here like to try to persuade me otherwise, or tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.
 
We struggled with them initially, expecially hoisting the sail, but after help on here we have mastered it as well as we can. We are very much less experienced than you, so for us the main benefit of not having to gather up the sail while Karen gets into a lather is worth the hassle. I guess for an old hand more confident than us its not really an issue?
 
I removed mine from my Rival 41C after the first season as I did not perceive the benefit was worth the extra bits of string and thought it was ugly looking as well. However, on the charter boats that I have sailed with it fitted, it was not such a big deal to use.

I stated much the same a good few years ago on here, in a similar thread, and the Reverend bit my head off (I am exaggerating) such is the passion that folks have for them.

I also like deckwork and such like, it’s part of the fun for me, but my early sailing background is in sail training on large boats and skippered charter, so tidy sail stows was allways a big deal, that’s probably where my liking for the basic set up comes from.
 
NealB said:
I've sailed a wide variety of boats, since the early 1960's.

A year ago, we bought our current boat, complete with an absolutely brand new, unused, stackpack type lazy jack set up.

After giving it what I think is a very fair trial, I'm now on the point of taking it off, and reverting to the old fashioned sail cover (and no lazy jacks).

Why?

Three main reasons:

- personally, I don't like the look of stackpacks, but recognise this is a subjective, not rational, opinion

- it makes pulling the sail up trickier than it needs to be (battens invariably get hooked under the lazy jacks)

- the sail doesn't drop as quickly when the halyard is let go

I find all those 3 points really annoying, yet stackpacks are now almost ubiquitous, so I'm obviously either an old git too set in my ways, or I'm doing something wrong (or both).

I see only one slight advantage: the sail doesn't drop on the deck, obscuring the helmsperson's view. However, on my boat (35 foot bermudan sloop), it takes so little time to do a roughish sea stow, that it doesn't anywhere make up for the disadvantages.

Would any of the esteemed members here like to try to persuade me otherwise, or tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

You can't do anything about the looks, but you can deal with hoisting and dropping issues. Try moving your top mounting of the lazyjacks to the spreaders rather than on the mast to widen the gap. Go into the wind while hoisting and dropping and slacken off the lazyjacks so the bag drops level with the boom. The sail will still drop under control which is one of the main benefits.

As ever people like them because they find them useful and if you have problems, analyse them and try alternatives. On the other hand if it still offends you get rid of it.
 
I had to add an extra string to keep the top batten from catching, which solved the hoisting issues and a light downhaul line ensured the main drops correctly. I'm no longer as agile as I was, and the Admiral doesn't like me leaving the cockpit, so being able to do everything from there on our little Snapdragon is a big help in keeping us sailing.
 
Two things, one of which I've "discovered" this season.

First, dropping is fine if you rig a thin line as a "retrieval line". Interleave a couple of times between sail slides so it doesn't flap around like a mad thing, and then when you drop, pay out the halyard and pull on the line. Make sure you can jam it in the down position (and up) and tension the main halyard against it.

Second... (this season's one)... I installed an Evo below deck AP over the winter, setting the wind angle to zero makes hoisting and dropping a doddle - no batten tangles, on the way up and reefing lines drop into the cover on the way down...
 
The one think I found is that you only need the lazy when you lower your main so I rigged lines through the lazy jack rings to pull the lazy to the mast at all times other than when lowering the main.

No batton catching no chafe.
 
NealB said:
I've sailed a wide variety of boats, since the early 1960's.

A year ago, we bought our current boat, complete with an absolutely brand new, unused, stackpack type lazy jack set up.

After giving it what I think is a very fair trial, I'm now on the point of taking it off, and reverting to the old fashioned sail cover (and no lazy jacks).

Why?

Three main reasons:

- personally, I don't like the look of stackpacks, but recognise this is a subjective, not rational, opinion

- it makes pulling the sail up trickier than it needs to be (battens invariably get hooked under the lazy jacks)

- the sail doesn't drop as quickly when the halyard is let go

I find all those 3 points really annoying, yet stackpacks are now almost ubiquitous, so I'm obviously either an old git too set in my ways, or I'm doing something wrong (or both).

I see only one slight advantage: the sail doesn't drop on the deck, obscuring the helmsperson's view. However, on my boat (35 foot bermudan sloop), it takes so little time to do a roughish sea stow, that it doesn't anywhere make up for the disadvantages.

Would any of the esteemed members here like to try to persuade me otherwise, or tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

My mate always drops the lazyjacks on his 74' before hoisting, then no problem with battens.
Sets lazyjackes again when dropping sails.
 
Being an old git and set in ones ways , nothing wrong in that!
I have a similar size boat and am happy that I no longer have to suffer the flapping stackpack, the sail cover stows in the cockpit locker.
I have however been converted to lazyjacks as I find the drop simpler with than without.
Having snap hooks on the 2 aft cascades, so they can be moved forward, makes the singlehanded hoist trouble free.
All done at the mast naturally.

Plank
 
Two things we worked out very quickly when we had ours, we had fully batten Main , keeping it directly into the wind when going up or down , the second we changed our sliders to cars , that really made the-different , the sail dropped like a lead balloon and went up just as quick.
If you speak to the sail makers they will tell you that you need to move the lines back to the mast when taken the sail up or down , but then what's the point in having them .
 
Another vote for lazy jacks and a conventional sail cover. The sail just about stacks itself on the boom when we drop it (top of lazy jacks fixed to middle of top spreaders) but we do end up with a cockpit full of reef lines to tidy up afterwards. Avoids the weight and windage of the stackpack.
 
Two things we worked out very quickly when we had ours, we had fully batten Main , keeping it directly into the wind when going up or down , the second we changed our sliders to cars , that really made the-different , the sail dropped like a lead balloon and went up just as quick.
If you speak to the sail makers they will tell you that you need to move the lines back to the mast when taken the sail up or down ,or at less lossen them , but then what's the point in having them .
 
If no stackpack works for you go for it, but on some boats just letting go of the main halyard without some sort of containment means a lot of sail loose on the deck and coachroof, obscuring vision if you're in the cockpit and a major slip/trip hazard if you're on your way back to the cockpit from the mast. The simplest containment is just lazyjacks, and if you go for that you may as well build in a sail cover - ie a "stackpack". As others have said, exact setup can make a lot of difference to ease of use.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Two things we worked out very quickly when we had ours, we had fully batten Main , keeping it directly into the wind when going up or down , the second we changed our sliders to cars , that really made the-different , the sail dropped like a lead balloon and went up just as quick.
If you speak to the sail makers they will tell you that you need to move the lines back to the mast when taken the sail up or down ,or at less lossen them , but then what's the point in having them .
Click to expand...

Where is the evidence that they need moving back to the mast when dropping sail?
That is what they are there for, to guide dropping sail into the bag.
 
alant said:
Where is the evidence that they need moving back to the mast when dropping sail?
That is what they are there for, to guide dropping sail into the bag.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more , but when we had them and spoke to two different sail makers both said the same , once we change to an all car systems, thing got a lot better .
 
alant said:
Where is the evidence that they need moving back to the mast when dropping sail?
That is what they are there for, to guide dropping sail into the bag.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more , but when we had them and spoke to two different sail makers both said the same , once we change to an all car systems, thing got a lot better .
 
I m really happy with my stackpack and lazyjacks. Makes mainsail handling a doddle for this old fart especially when singlehanded.

On hoist I slacken the lazyjacks and bungee them forward to the mast. No problems with getting the battens stuck.

I have full length battens with batt cars. While the sail does not always rattle all the way down I am up at the mast anyway.

Re bungeeing them forward . Do people sail with their lazyjacks tight and rubbing on the sail?
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
I removed mine from my Rival 41C after the first season as I did not perceive the benefit was worth the extra bits of string and thought it was ugly looking as well. However, on the charter boats that I have sailed with it fitted, it was not such a big deal to use.

I stated much the same a good few years ago on here, in a similar thread, and the Reverend bit my head off (I am exaggerating) such is the passion that folks have for them.

I also like deckwork and such like, it’s part of the fun for me, but my early sailing background is in sail training on large boats and skippered charter, so tidy sail stows was allways a big deal, that’s probably where my liking for the basic set up comes from.
Click to expand...

If it was me that replied then I hope I didn't bite your head off.

I will repeat what I may have said before: we have lazyjacks fitted to our 39' centre cockpit boat and so long as we are careful not to snag a batten when we are hoisting the mainsail (its only the lower two battens that can possible snag so it's no great hardship) then we have had nothing by fantastic service from them. The stack pack doesn't flap around and if you flake the main halyard out in the cockpit and release the clutch, the mainsail (99 times out of 100) stows itself completely without any fuss whatsoever. We have to tuck the reefing pennants in to the bag, but that's no hardship at all as the mainsail drops down in one huge rush and is gathered into the stack pack. We've got it set up so that we never have to adjust the lazyjacks whether hoisting, setting, reefing or dropping the sail.

If they didn't work so brilliantly, I can imagine getting annoyed with them, but they make setting and stowing the main extremely easy on our boat.
 
Now on my second home-made 'stackpack'. The first one is still in use by the present owner of that boat.
(1) Stepping inadvertently on many squares metres of slippery Dacron mainsail folded loosely on the coach-roof is as predictable as the first time on skates: amusing for spectators but not so much for the skater.
(2) The aft-most guide lines do not go beyond 75% of the boom length. If necessary it is a matter of fitting simple snap hooks to the ends of the lines and taking them to the mast. This makes the inverted V-shape of the guide lines go limp and away from the leach. No problems with the batten ends catching. (Top three battens are full length).
(2b) Removal of the lines through the use of the snap-links also allows me to rig a canopy over the boom and the furled main when at anchor, going beyond halfway over the coach-roof and well past the open companionway. Very useful in hot weather in the central Mediterranean (Malta)
(3) Before hoisting the main take up any slack on the topping lift. This lifts the end of the boom and allows for a smooth hoist and avoids unnecessary tension on the bottom of the sail, for example when the angle of the tack is significantly less than 90 degrees.
(4) A clean luff-groove and slides (or cars) ensures that the main tumbles down right into the stack with no hassle... only if you head right into the wind. It helps to remember to release the mainsheet and to engage the tiller pilot and with the engine running sufficient to make some headway.

As you may have guessed, I sail mostly solo and would not be without my own version of a 'stackpack' system. I would also not be prepared to pay silly money for something that is not as efficient as the ones that I made... but that's just me! ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top