ST80 Fail safe??

[kidnapped]

This is not a criticism, but you should be aware that when the above system fails when you are in 'autopilot' mode, the rudder stays in 'auto' following previous course without the benefit of GPS!
I was sailing towards Cowes, minding my own business, converging gently with a Sigma 38 .... my humble apologies to him .... when my ST80 failed completely, my yacht immediately rounded up and passed his stern by a couple of feet. I had to switch off the system to regain control. The fault was traced to a couple of leads which had come off in the instrument pod at the helm.
Should there not be an alarm that sounds for this type of failure or a 'panic' button located to switch off the system on the helming pod?

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[tillergirl]

Should you be on auto when converging with another yacht in busy waters?

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[bigmart]

Why ever not!

Martin



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[qsiv]

I'd agree..

The pilot steers my boat about 95% of the time. The rest is either manouevring in and around harbour, or the odd moment where there is too much adrenaline to be had from steering the boat by hand. Most of the time I'm busy watchkeeping, navigating, tending to the galley or the crew - or if it is calm enough attending to odd items of maintenance that can be done on passage.

My biggest gripe (admittedly with ST50 instruments) is that the angle of the autotack cant be adjusted - it's locked (from memory) at 110 degrees which is far too wide for me.

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[tillergirl]

Well think about it. First what happened is a good reason. Secondly are there some rules about converging courses to be followed. Providing everybody follows the rules and does everything right - fine. If not?

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[bigmart]

An Autopilot can steer a better course than I ever can. Using a tool that takes the pressure of a mundane task from me & leaves me more time to monitor the developing situation. If I determine that the situation requires my intervention then I can take over as necessary.

OK sometimes these devices fail. This may be at a critical moment & sometimes it may not. Ropes break, Rigging fails people make mistakes. None of this is a reason not to trust a piece of equipment that normally performs its task perfectly & is a great help particularly when shorthanded sailing. If I mistrusted every piece of equipment on my boat, to the degree that I panicked everytime I was within 100 yards of another vessel, I would never move off the mooring. In fact I wouldn't get on a boat.

I repeat. The average Autopilot is a reliable & safe piece of equipment & offers positive safety advantages to the cruising boatowner. It is reasonable to expect it to work correctly no matter what the proximity of another vessel. Only the situation with regard to that other vessel may determine when it is prudent to take over manual control.

When a piece of equipment fails I deal with it.

Martin

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[rich]

mundane task !!!!!Why the hell do you bother to leave your mooring,?

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[BrendanS]

You're thinking like a stinkie.

On a raggie you have to sometimes leave the helm to attend to lots of washing that's been hung up to dry, and rearrange the strings so they all dry evenly.

Also travel a lot slower, so tides and wind become far more important, so that means time spent at chart table playing noughts and crosses (it impresses the non nautical peeps on board who think you know what you are doing, before you quickly check the gps)

On a sailing boat doing long cruises, having something to do the steering for at least part of the trip is really useful. Even stinkies have them!

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[Dominic]

Is any equipment fail safe ?

"Should there not be an alarm that sounds for this type of failure"

Yup.

Listen for a "crunching" noise.

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[tillergirl]

Sorry to have offended you and this will probably make it work. I agree with most of what you say. The point is he could not take over without it becoming a bit of a crisis. He had no way of turning it off at the helm so he had trouble responding in time. I agree with the origianl point of the thread that he should have a way of turning it off at the helming position. Of course an autohelm is a useful and reliable bit of kit and used for all the reasons speciified in this thread but if you are CONVERGING in the kind of proximity that was apparent in the original post and you can't turn it off at the helming position? Well you would leave it on. I would because I have a tiller pilot and can lift it off which is an entirely different scenario.

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[bigmart]

Watch it Brendan. You're going to get yourself a dodgy reputation if you carry on like this. First you get caught asking Raggies for advice & next you're sticking up for us & understanding the different concepts that are required to sail, as opposed to motor, a boat.

I think this highlights the lack of understanding that exists between the two camps. I did not consider the situation from the angle of a stinkie. many times i have joked that you can tell when I am sailing because all course alterations are made in 10 degree increments as I adjust the tiller pilot.

There is obviously a lot of learning needed, on both sides, before we can appreciate the philosophies, & their driving forces, that are required to navigate our very different vessels from A to B.

I wonder if raggies & stinkies will ever co-exist in harmony. Could be the opening line of a song "I'd like to teach the world to boat in floating harmony". What do you think?

Martin

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[bigmart]

No offense taken & I agree with you that I would expect there to be an emergency release at the helm. The reason for my abrupt response to your post was that, often here, armchair sailors respond who analyse every statement to the nth degree & dispense criticism without a pinch of practical knowledge. It was a mistake on my part make the wrong assuption with you. I did find Brendans response thought provoking regardless of the fact that he is one of those Drug dealing, Pimp, Hairdressing Stinkies. It does rather highlight the different ethos that drives our boating.

Martin

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[kidnapped]

I think a few things need clearing up:
A The Solent was not busy where this incident took place, very quiet, in fact.
B We had been 'converging' for about 30mins from 250yds to about 30yds
C The Sigma was the overtaking boat and was, in my opinion, taking a perfectly safe course past me
D The situation that arose was due to gear failure, not something that was anticipated by either party
E I only posted the original to alert others as to what to expect when you have a complete failure ... I had not experienced this before ... now other Scuttlebutters know what to expect.
F I thought sharing 'unusual' experiences was what this board is partly about.

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[BrendanS]

Ah!, but I've done some sailing, and also read all the threads here. At some point I may even grow a beard, and have some special contact lenses made to give me that wild eyed, crazed look, just so I can truely experience the concept of being a raggie

As for the reputation, it's already ruined. One of the stinkies called me 'honourable' after I was seen here slumming it with you lot.

Seriously, it doesn't, take much effort to appreciate either side of things. Even within each camp, many don't appreciate different sides of things. eg a female skipper of a motorboat who was told by her club members that her 28'er wasn't big enough for trips to Weymouth, never mind France. In the meantime, I'll take my 21'er to Weymouth on day trips, and will happily take it much, much further.

Then you raggies have similar issues with modern wide beam GRP mass produced boats, compared to more rough weather friendly designs, or classic owners. Each of which are perfectly suitable for their owners requirements.

So, no, we won't all ever live in harmony, though some of us will make the effort to try.

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[bigmart]

I heard that you'd already aquired that wild eyed look after your Gin bottle ran out & you were 3 feet from land. You are starting to worry me though. Youre not going to get all kissy kissy at the Mercury meet are you?

The bit I can't understand is, if you've done some sailing, how can you bring yourself to step on a Stinkie boat that isn't a water taxi? It must really seem like youre putting up with the rough end of the deal.

Martin

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[BrendanS]

Never mind kissy stuff. I'll render you insensible with the empty bottle, then press gang you into a ride on a real boat

You'll very soon be won over to the dark side. Fatipa is already sliding down the slippery path




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[bigmart]

What are you on about Brendan. Have you been sniffing the perming solution again. If you want to render me insensible you'll need a full bottle & I presume you've fitted your Gin Palace with sails otherwise it does not really deserve the name boat. Tender might be more appropriate. I could wonder about the dark recesses of your mind though. You know i'm too pure for the dark side!

Martin

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[TheBoatman]

Careful Brendan or you'll be buying one of those pump up primus thingys and throwing all of your breakfast into one pot i.e. bacon, beans, eggs, sausages, tinned tomatoes, mushrooms etc, and plumping the whole lot until its cooked. AND all of this in the "COCKPIT" not the galley.

Be careful mate you could become a RAGGIE (heaven forbid)<s>

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[BrendanS]

Hmm! Haven't tried this in the boat yet, but when out with mountain rescue, and hill walking and climbing in general, we used to chuck everything in the pan.

Starter, main meal, pudding, chocolate bars, anything that came to hand really....all together..and eat it with great relish. Usually too tired and cold to worry about haute cuisine, just quick calories

Breakfast was similar.

Most wonderful meal I can remember was New Years Eve when I was 17. In a snow hole in the Cairngorms. Everything chucked in the pan, after a hard days walking, climbing, and first time ever in a snow hole overnight, with a hip flask of whisky shared between 6 of us.

Anyway, one of these days I will become a true raggie, buy a blue water cruiser, and sail off round the world leaving the rat race behind, and taking on a different set of issues to cope with /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[BrendanS]

Already learnt not to let raggies loose with spirits, they become very strange with even the slightest whiff of the stuff...dancing hornpipes, doing John Cleese funny walks, and long, long tales of how they rounded Cape Horn in a bathtub with no plug, and their hankie ripped to shreds, surviving purely by eating nits from their beards!

I'll keep a bottle of ginger beer ready for you, and you can tell me all about your Swallows and Amazons experiences.

Once you've got it out of your system, we'll let you have a go at helming a speed boat. After you've had your first opportunity to overwhelm a couple of anchored raggies with wash, and buzzed a few racing yachts in the Solent, you won't look back.



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